Book of Mormon Notes– How deep can you dig?

2011, September 26

“LDS Church Policy: Wisdom Teeth Removal and Vaccinations: Unnecessary and Burdensome Requirements for Going on a Mission?” by grego

LDS Church Policy: Wisdom Teeth Removal and Vaccinations: Unnecessary and Burdensome Requirements for Going on a Mission?


YAY, YAY, YAY!!!! For those of you worried about it and unable to find answers, comes this:

Official letter from Missionary Department:

“…you asked if receiving immunizations and having wisdom teeth removed are optional. …[T]his medical treatment… is not required for full-time missionary service.”
…However, it is clear now that removing wisdom teeth and immunizations/ vaccinations are optional, not required.

If your unit leaders (ward, stake, etc.) need to check/ find out for themselves (if I were one I’d want to do that, too–understandable), they can call the Missionary Department Pre-field Services (801-240-2030).
So if you want to opt out, I’d suggest just writing “Personal Opt-out” in the area(s) or such on the form unless Pre-field Services says to communicate it in a different way.

So my relative wants to go on a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. His family is poor. He’s working for his mission money.

But on top of that, there’s over $1,000 that he will need for wisdom teeth removal and more for shots (recent update:  whoops, that’s PER TOOTH, not total).

Because if you don’t get your wisdom teeth removed and get your shots, the Church does not allow you to fulfill the commandment to go on a mission.

My question is, are these two things really helpful, necessary for all or just some (like according to a dentist’s judgment), or do they just add expense and health problems to future missionaries’ already-heavy stresses and burdens?

Anyone remotely familiar with surgery knows that any type of surgery has the potential for danger, especially if any type of anesthesiology is used (which almost always is for wisdom teeth removal). If the wisdom teeth don’t present a problem—especially if they have already come in and there is no impaction or compaction—why unnecessarily endanger someone’s health by forcing their removal?

Vaccinations have yet to be proven or even shown helpful; there is plenty of evidence that they are dangerous, even damaging. Every state in the USA (except Mississippi and West Virginia) allow religious exemptions, and twenty states allow philosophical exemptions for required school vaccinations (see; yet missionaries aren’t allowed these options.

While this might have been “standard” years ago, the LDS Church will continue to run into more and more problems as more and more parents become educated and aware of the dangers of vaccines (and about Western medicine and drug companies in general), and don’t allow their children to receive vaccines.

It would be a shame to force members to choose between either going on a mission or keeping their God-given teeth in their bodies and dangerous substances out.

I imagine that the LDS Church is worried that missionaries will have problems with their teeth or with some disease that the vaccination is supposed to protect from, and then church insurance will have to cover it, which will add financial burden to the church.
If missionaries have to pay for surgery anyway, why not just allow surgery and vaccinations to be opted out of for those who don’t want them, but make payment mandatory if it needs to be done later while they are on their mission?
I’m not even sure why the LDS Church still puts these requirements/ limits on the physical exam anyway. For example, people with asthma can go on missions (where there is immediate danger and often required hospitalization).

This LDS Church policy reminds me of the fiasco of Texas forcing all females over the age of 11 to get HPV vaccinations in order to attend school—which resulted in 68 deaths; life-threatening situations; and other serious problems. From the CDC:
“As of June 22, 2011, approximately 35 million doses of Gardasil® were distributed in the U.S. and VAERS received a total of 18,727 reports of adverse events following Gardasil® vaccination… Of the total number of VAERS reports following Gardasil®, 92% were considered to be non-serious, and 8% were considered serious*… As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil®.”

That’s .0535%!! (And they don’t count fainting as serious–fainting isn’t serious?? So if you’re driving a car (with passengers), or you fall and get a concussion or worse, etc. that isn’t serious? Fever isn’t serious only because it didn’t result in death, right?)

It’s generally understood that many problems are not ever linked up, and many are never reported.

Many other moral problems arose from that situation.

I encourage the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to review its policies regarding missionaries being required to receive wisdom teeth removal and vaccinations, instead of having an option to opt-out (even if it means signing a waiver).

UPDATE: Part 2, research information that says stop removing most wisdom teeth:

“God and Miracles” by grego

God and Miracles


How does God do miracles? I see two main camps: God has to do everything by mysterious miracles; or, God does nothing by miracles, but by “mainstream science” science.

The first camp would have use believe that everything God does is unexplainable/ mysterious, and that “good enough” always works as a final explanation, and that even more thinking might actually cause harm.

The second camp would have us believe that there has to be a way a miracle was performed that we can currently understand, or it didn’t happen, and that science is just plain old science.

I prefer the third camp: God does miracles, but He often uses his own ranking: from the simplest, easiest, earthly means possible, on up to the outright miracle.

For example, He could have had the Book of Mormon already translated into all the languages of the world, and had them show up when needed (not even an angel needed!). Instead, He had an angel prepare a young man to receive the original records and translate them over time, and translate that into other languages.
He could give a daily schedule to the missionaries and tell them exactly where to go and what to say every day. Or better yet, just send all his sheep to the church where the missionaries can preach without having to find. Instead, He lets them work a lot, much of it fruitless, yet still guides them when needed.
He could tell you whom to marry, how to contact them, and when. Or at least offer a few choices! Instead, He offers general principles and guidelines, and lets you go for it, crash and burn, not marry the best person for you, and maybe even get divorced.
He could make your car run without gas or an engine or a battery, but He will most likely prompt someone to stop and help you/ get you help.
And with all that, He allows prayer and every so often gives somewhat clear and immediate responses. And blessings, and other help from heaven—as needed.
Yes, there is purpose to His ways.

“He did it” *is* enough. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t a *way* He did it, nor that we shouldn’t try to understand that way. Yes, simple answers of plain miracles suffice—but there is often much more to it than that, and it’s often to our benefit to understand.

2011, September 24

“Book of Mormon: Jacob, ‘[His] Son Enos’, and 179 Years” by grego

Book of Mormon: Jacob, ‘[His] Son Enos’, and 179 Years


There seems to be a problem where Jacob says he gives the plates to “my (his) son Enos”, who shortly before dying says it has been 179 years since the leaving of Jerusalem. Since Jacob was born within at least 7 years from that time, that would make 171 years for two generations–pretty impossible. Did Joseph Smith mess up, or is there—like most of the other times there are problems in the Book of Mormon—a solution?

Here are the pertinent verses:

Jacob 7:27 And I, Jacob, saw that I must soon go down to my grave; wherefore, I said unto my son Enos: Take these plates. And I told him the things which my brother Nephi had commanded me, and he promised obedience unto the commands. And I make an end of my writing upon these plates, which writing has been small; and to the reader I bid farewell, hoping that many of my brethren may read my words. Brethren, adieu.

Enos 1:1 Behold, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just man—for he taught me in his language, and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord—and blessed be the name of my God for it—
2 And I will tell you of the wrestle which I had before God, before I received a remission of my sins.
3 Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forests; and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunk deep into my heart.
4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.
5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.

9 Now, it came to pass that when I had heard these words I began to feel a desire for the welfare of my brethren, the Nephites; wherefore, I did pour out my whole soul unto God for them.
10 And while I was thus struggling in the spirit, behold, the voice of the Lord came into my mind again, saying: I will visit thy brethren according to their diligence in keeping my commandments. I have given unto them this land, and it is a holy land; and I curse it not save it be for the cause of iniquity; wherefore, I will visit thy brethren according as I have said; and their transgressions will I bring down with sorrow upon their own heads.

14 For at the present our strugglings were vain in restoring them to the true faith. And they swore in their wrath that, if it were possible, they would destroy our records and us, and also all the traditions of our fathers.

18 And the Lord said unto me: Thy fathers have also required of me this thing; and it shall be done unto them according to their faith; for their faith was like unto thine.
20 And I bear record that the people of Nephi did seek diligently to restore the Lamanites unto the true faith in God. But our labors were vain; their hatred was fixed, and they were led by their evil nature that they became wild, and ferocious, and a blood-thirsty people, full of idolatry and filthiness; feeding upon beasts of prey; dwelling in tents, and wandering about in the wilderness with a short skin girdle about their loins and their heads shaven; and their skill was in the bow , and in the cimeter, and the ax. And many of them did eat nothing save it was raw meat; and they were continually seeking to destroy us.

24 And I saw wars between the Nephites and Lamanites in the course of my days.
25 And it came to pass that I began to be old, and *an HUNDRED AND SEVENTY AND NINE YEARS had passed away from the time that our father Lehi left Jerusalem*.
26 And I saw that I must soon go down to my grave, having been wrought upon by the power of God that I must preach and prophesy unto this people, and declare the word according to the truth which is in Christ. And I have declared it in all my days, and have rejoiced in it above that of the world.

(179 years – 5 years? [Jacob born in wilderness] ) / 2 = x; 174/2 = 87 years each

It seems that Enos got the plates when he was young. If that is the case, then if both of them lived to be 87 years old, and Enos got them from Jacob when he was born, that is 174 years. But that’s hard to imagine happening. I imagine Enos has to be at least (and probably more) than 10 years old, so Jacob living to 95+ years is really pushing limits.

I see two other possibilities right now:
1. It is possible that Jacob gave the plates to his son, Enos, who then gave them to his son, Enos. (It’s not necessary that Alma was the first to name his son after him. ;) ). However, everyone wrote something; but we learn that they wrote it at the end of their lives, so there might have been an accidental death or something… Still…

2. It’s also possible that Jacob gave the plates to his grandson, Enos. If Jacob were 87 years old when he gave them to an 18-year old grandson, who lived also to be 87 years old… Strethcing it, but plausible. Why would Jacob give them to his grandson? Other places in the Book of Mormon show that it’s not always son-to-son; even the first passing was from Nephi to Jacob, his brother.

But to call his grandson a “son”… isn’t that fishy? And Enos seems to refer to Jacob as his father. Well, let’s see… does this happen anywhere else in the Book of Mormon?

In fact, it does—in strong and clear precedents:
2 Nephi 3:22 And now, behold, my (Lehi’s) son Joseph, after this manner did *my father of old* (Joseph of Egypt) prophesy.

2 Nephi 4:3 …*[Lehi] called the children of Laman, his sons, and his daughters*, and said unto them: Behold, *my sons, and my daughters*, *who are the sons and the daughters of my first-born*, I would that ye should give ear unto my words.
5 But behold, *my sons and my daughters*, I cannot go down to my grave save I should leave a blessing upon you; for behold, I know that if ye are brought up in the way ye should go ye will not depart from it.
6 Wherefore, if ye are cursed, behold, I leave my blessing upon you, that the cursing may be taken from you and be answered upon *the heads of your parents*…
8 And it came to pass that after my father had made an end of speaking to the sons and daughters of Laman, he caused *the sons and daughters of Lemuel* to be brought before him.
9 And he spake unto them, saying: Behold, *my sons and my daughters, who are the sons and the daughters of my second son*; behold I leave unto you the same blessing which I left unto the sons and daughters of Laman…

2011, September 21

“Book of Mormon: Nephi’s Odd Language When Speaking to His Brothers: ‘My Father’ instead of ‘Our Father’ (1 Nephi 3:18; 1 Nephi 7:14; 1 Nephi 17:44)” by grego

Book of Mormon: Nephi’s Odd Language When Speaking to His Brothers: “My Father” instead of “Our Father” (1 Nephi 3:18, 1 Nephi 7:14, 1 Nephi 17:44)


I had thought I had already written a post on this, but I can’t seem to find it, so until/ if then…

Nephi uses some language that sounds odd in English: when speaking to his brothers, he addresses their father as “my father”. In English, that would never happen; it would always be “our father” or “father”.

Here are the occasions (all dialogue directed at his brothers):
1 Nephi 3:18 For behold, they have rejected the words of the prophets. Wherefore, if my father should dwell in the land after he hath been commanded to flee out of the land, behold, he would also perish. Wherefore, it must needs be that he flee out of the land.

1 Nephi 7:14 For behold, the Spirit of the Lord ceaseth soon to strive with them; for behold, they have rejected the prophets, and Jeremiah have they cast into prison. And they have sought to take away the life of my father, insomuch that they have driven him out of the land.

1 Nephi 17:44 Wherefore, the Lord commanded my father that he should depart into the wilderness; and the Jews also sought to take away his life; yea, and ye also have sought to take away his life; wherefore, ye are murderers in your hearts and ye are like unto them.

I have heard this in Chinese a few times, and I have heard a report of a Spanish-speaker doing this, too. I believe this offers evidence of the Book of Mormon being a translation.

He doesn’t use it all the time; just a few times. Most of the occasions when he uses “our father” (most of the references):
1 Nephi 3:15 But behold I said unto them that: As the Lord liveth, and as we live, we will not go down unto OUR FATHER in the wilderness until we have accomplished the thing which the Lord hath commanded us.

1 Nephi 3:16 Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of OUR FATHER’s inheritance, for behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done because of the commandments of the Lord.

1 Nephi 4:35 And it came to pass that Zoram did take courage at the words which I spake. Now Zoram was the name of the servant; and he promised that he would go down into the wilderness unto OUR FATHER. Yea, and he also made an oath unto us that he would tarry with us from that time forth.

1 Nephi 4:38 And it came to pass that we took the plates of brass and the servant of Laban, and departed into the wilderness, and journeyed unto the tent of OUR FATHER.

1 Nephi 5:1 And it came to pass that after we had come down into the wilderness unto OUR FATHER, behold, he was filled with joy, and also my mother, Sariah, was exceedingly glad, for she truly had mourned because of us.

1 Nephi 7:5 And it came to pass that the Lord did soften the heart of Ishmael, and also his household, insomuch that they took their journey with us down into the wilderness to the tent of our father.

1 Nephi 7:21 And it came to pass that I did frankly forgive them all that they had done, and I did exhort them that they would pray unto the Lord their God for forgiveness. And it came to pass that they did so. And after they had done praying unto the Lord we did again travel on our journey towards the tent of OUR FATHER.

1 Nephi 7:22 And it came to pass that we did come down unto the tent of OUR FATHER. And after I and my brethren and all the house of Ishmael had come down unto the tent of my father, they did give thanks unto the Lord their God; and they did offer sacrifice and burnt offerings unto him.

1 Nephi 15:12 Behold, I say unto you, that the house of Israel was compared unto an olive tree, by the Spirit of the Lord which was in OUR FATHER; and behold are we not broken off from the house of Israel, and are we not a branch of the house of Israel?

1 Nephi 15:13 And now, the thing which OUR FATHER meaneth concerning the grafting in of the natural branches through the fulness of the Gentiles, is, that in the latter days, when our seed shall have dwindled in unbelief, yea, for the space of many years, and many generations after the Messiah shall be manifested in body unto the children of men, then shall the fulness of the gospel of the Messiah come unto the Gentiles, and from the Gentiles unto the remnant of our seed—

1 Nephi 15:17 And this is what OUR FATHER meaneth; and he meaneth that it will not come to pass until after they are scattered by the Gentiles; and he meaneth that it shall come by way of the Gentiles, that the Lord may show his power unto the Gentiles, for the very cause that he shall be rejected of the Jews, or of the house of Israel.

1 Nephi 15:18 Wherefore, OUR FATHER hath not spoken of our seed alone, but also of all the house of Israel, pointing to the covenant which should be fulfilled in the latter days; which covenant the Lord made to OUR FATHER Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

1 Nephi 15:30 And I said unto them that OUR FATHER also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end.

2 Nephi 1:1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of teaching my brethren, OUR FATHER, Lehi, also spake many things unto them, and rehearsed unto them, how great things the Lord had done for them in bringing them out of the land of Jerusalem.

2011, September 13

Book of Mormon | “The Prophesied Final Destruction of the Nephites: Scriptures that Help Us Understand the Cause(s)” by grego

Book of Mormon | The Prophesied Final Destruction of the Nephites: Scriptures that Help Us Understand the Cause(s)

(c) 2010

So, why were the Nephites destroyed?

Here are a few insights from different areas in the Book of Mormon.

1 Nephi 12:14 And the angel said unto me: Behold thy seed, and also the seed of thy brethren.
15 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the people of my seed gathered together in multitudes against the seed of my brethren; and they were gathered together to battle.
16 And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the fountain of filthy water which thy father saw; yea, even the river of which he spake; and the depths thereof are the depths of hell.
17 And the mists of darkness are the temptations of the devil, which blindeth the eyes, and hardeneth the hearts of the children of men, and leadeth them away into broad roads, that they perish and are lost.
18 And the large and spacious building, which thy father saw, is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men. And a great and a terrible gulf divideth them; yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and the Messiah who is the Lamb of God, of whom the Holy Ghost beareth record, from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and forever.
19 And while the angel spake these words, I beheld and saw that the seed of my brethren did contend against my seed, according to the word of the angel; and because of the pride of my seed, and the temptations of the devil, I beheld that the seed of my brethren did overpower the people of my seed.

2 Nephi 26:10 And when these things have passed away a speedy destruction cometh unto my people; for, notwithstanding the pains of my soul, I have seen it; wherefore, I know that it shall come to pass; and they sell themselves for naught; for, for the reward of their pride and their foolishness they shall reap destruction; for because they yield unto the devil and choose works of darkness rather than light, therefore they must go down to hell.

Jacob 3:3 But, wo, wo, unto you that are not pure in heart, that are filthy this day before God; for except ye repent the land is cursed for your sakes; and the Lamanites, which are not filthy like unto you, nevertheless they are cursed with a sore cursing, shall scourge you even unto destruction.

Enos 1:13 And now behold, this was the desire which I desired of him—that if it should so be, that my people, the Nephites, should fall into transgression, and by any means be destroyed, and the Lamanites should not be destroyed, that the Lord God would preserve a record of my people, the Nephites; even if it so be by the power of his holy arm, that it might be brought forth at some future day unto the Lamanites, that, perhaps, they might be brought unto salvation—

Alma 9:18 But behold, I say unto you that if ye persist in your wickedness that your days shall not be prolonged in the land, for the Lamanites shall be sent upon you; and if ye repent not they shall come in a time when you know not, and ye shall be visited with utter destruction; and it shall be according to the fierce anger of the Lord.
19 For he will not suffer you that ye shall live in your iniquities, to destroy his people. I say unto you, Nay; he would rather suffer that the Lamanites might destroy all his people who are called the people of Nephi, if it were possible that they could fall into sins and transgressions, after having had so much light and so much knowledge given unto them of the Lord their God;
20 Yea, after having been such a highly favored people of the Lord; yea, after having been favored above every other nation, kindred, tongue, or people; after having had all things made known unto them, according to their desires, and their faith, and prayers, of that which has been, and which is, and which is to come;
21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;
22 Yea, and after having been delivered of God out of the land of Jerusalem, by the hand of the Lord; having been saved from famine, and from sickness, and all manner of diseases of every kind; and they having waxed strong in battle, that they might not be destroyed; having been brought out of bondage time after time, and having been kept and preserved until now; and they have been prospered until they are rich in all manner of things—
23 And now behold I say unto you, that if this people, who have received so many blessings from the hand of the Lord, should transgress contrary to the light and knowledge which they do have, I say unto you that if this be the case, that if they should fall into transgression, it would be far more tolerable for the Lamanites than for them.
24 For behold, the promises of the Lord are extended to the Lamanites, but they are not unto you if ye transgress; for has not the Lord expressly promised and firmly decreed, that if ye will rebel against him that ye shall utterly be destroyed from off the face of the earth?

Alma 45:10 And these are the words: Behold, I perceive that this very people, the Nephites, according to the spirit of revelation which is in me, in four hundred years from the time that Jesus Christ shall manifest himself unto them, shall dwindle in unbelief.
11 Yea, and then shall they see wars and pestilences, yea, famines and bloodshed, even until the people of Nephi shall become extinct—
12 Yea, and this because they shall dwindle in unbelief and fall into the works of darkness, and lasciviousness, and all manner of iniquities; yea, I say unto you, that because they shall sin against so great light and knowledge, yea, I say unto you, that from that day, even the fourth generation shall not all pass away before this great iniquity shall come.
13 And when that great day cometh, behold, the time very soon cometh that those who are now, or the seed of those who are now numbered among the people of Nephi, shall no more be numbered among the people of Nephi.
14 But whosoever remaineth, and is not destroyed in that great and dreadful day, shall be numbered among the Lamanites, and shall become like unto them,

Helaman 7:17 O repent ye, repent ye! Why will ye die? Turn ye, turn ye unto the Lord your God. Why has he forsaken you?
18 It is because you have hardened your hearts; yea, ye will not hearken unto the voice of the good shepherd; yea, ye have provoked him to anger against you.
19 And behold, instead of gathering you, except ye will repent, behold, he shall scatter you forth that ye shall become meat for dogs and wild beasts.
20 O, how could you have forgotten your God in the very day that he has delivered you?
21 But behold, it is to get gain, to be praised of men, yea, and that ye might get gold and silver. And ye have set your hearts upon the riches and the vain things of this world, for the which ye do murder, and plunder, and steal, and bear false witness against your neighbor, and do all manner of iniquity.
22 And for this cause wo shall come unto you except ye shall repent. For if ye will not repent, behold, this great city, and also all those great cities which are round about, which are in the land of our possession, shall be taken away that ye shall have no place in them; for behold, the Lord will not grant unto you strength, as he has hitherto done, to withstand against your enemies.
23 For behold, thus saith the Lord: I will not show unto the wicked of my strength, to one more than the other, save it be unto those who repent of their sins, and hearken unto my words. Now therefore, I would that ye should behold, my brethren, that it shall be better for the Lamanites than for you except ye shall repent.

Helaman 15:1 And now, my beloved brethren, behold, I declare unto you that except ye shall repent your houses shall be left unto you desolate.
2 Yea, except ye repent, your women shall have great cause to mourn in the day that they shall give suck; for ye shall attempt to flee and there shall be no place for refuge; yea, and wo unto them which are with child, for they shall be heavy and cannot flee; therefore, they shall be trodden down and shall be left to perish.
3 Yea, wo unto this people who are called the people of Nephi except they shall repent, when they shall see all these signs and wonders which shall be showed unto them; for behold, they have been a chosen people of the Lord; yea, the people of Nephi hath he loved, and also hath he chastened them; yea, in the days of their iniquities hath he chastened them because he loveth them.
4 But behold my brethren, the Lamanites hath he hated because their deeds have been evil continually, and this because of the iniquity of the tradition of their fathers. But behold, salvation hath come unto them through the preaching of the Nephites; and for this intent hath the Lord prolonged their days.
5 And I would that ye should behold that the more part of them are in the path of their duty, and they do walk circumspectly before God, and they do observe to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments according to the law of Moses.
6 Yea, I say unto you, that the more part of them are doing this, and they are striving with unwearied diligence that they may bring the remainder of their brethren to the knowledge of the truth; therefore there are many who do add to their numbers daily.
7 And behold, ye do know of yourselves, for ye have witnessed it, that as many of them as are brought to the knowledge of the truth, and to know of the wicked and abominable traditions of their fathers, and are led to believe the holy scriptures, yea, the prophecies of the holy prophets, which are written, which leadeth them to faith on the Lord, and unto repentance, which faith and repentance bringeth a change of heart unto them—
8 Therefore, as many as have come to this, ye know of yourselves are firm and steadfast in the faith, and in the thing wherewith they have been made free.
9 And ye know also that they have buried their weapons of war, and they fear to take them up lest by any means they should sin; yea, ye can see that they fear to sin—for behold they will suffer themselves that they be trodden down and slain by their enemies, and will not lift their swords against them, and this because of their faith in Christ.
10 And now, because of their steadfastness when they do believe in that thing which they do believe, for because of their firmness when they are once enlightened, behold, the Lord shall bless them and prolong their days, notwithstanding their iniquity—
11 Yea, even if they should dwindle in unbelief the Lord shall prolong their days, until the time shall come which hath been spoken of by our fathers, and also by the prophet Zenos, and many other prophets, concerning the restoration of our brethren, the Lamanites, again to the knowledge of the truth—
12 Yea, I say unto you, that in the latter times the promises of the Lord have been extended to our brethren, the Lamanites; and notwithstanding the many afflictions which they shall have, and notwithstanding they shall be driven to and fro upon the face of the earth, and be hunted, and shall be smitten and scattered abroad, having no place for refuge, the Lord shall be merciful unto them.
13 And this is according to the prophecy, that they shall again be brought to the true knowledge, which is the knowledge of their Redeemer, and their great and true shepherd, and be numbered among his sheep.
14 Therefore I say unto you, it shall be better for them than for you except ye repent.
15 For behold, had the mighty works been shown unto them which have been shown unto you, yea, unto them who have dwindled in unbelief because of the traditions of their fathers, ye can see of yourselves that they never would again have dwindled in unbelief.
16 Therefore, saith the Lord: I will not utterly destroy them, but I will cause that in the day of my wisdom they shall return again unto me, saith the Lord.
17 And now behold, saith the Lord, concerning the people of the Nephites: If they will not repent, and observe to do my will, I will utterly destroy them, saith the Lord, because of their unbelief notwithstanding the many mighty works which I have done among them; and as surely as the Lord liveth shall these things be, saith the Lord.

Mormon 1:13 But wickedness did prevail upon the face of the whole land, insomuch that the Lord did take away his beloved disciples, and the work of miracles and of healing did cease because of the iniquity of the people.
14 And there were no gifts from the Lord, and the Holy Ghost did not come upon any, because of their wickedness and unbelief.
15 And I, being fifteen years of age and being somewhat of a sober mind, therefore I was visited of the Lord, and tasted and knew of the goodness of Jesus.
16 And I did endeavor to preach unto this people, but my mouth was shut, and I was forbidden that I should preach unto them; for behold they had wilfully rebelled against their God; and the beloved disciples were taken away out of the land, because of their iniquity.
17 But I did remain among them, but I was forbidden to preach unto them, because of the hardness of their hearts; and because of the hardness of their hearts the land was cursed for their sake.

Mormon 2:8 But behold, the land was filled with robbers and with Lamanites; and notwithstanding the great destruction which hung over my people, they did not repent of their evil doings; therefore there was blood and carnage spread throughout all the face of the land, both on the part of the Nephites and also on the part of the Lamanites; and it was one complete revolution throughout all the face of the land.
10 And it came to pass that the Nephites began to repent of their iniquity, and began to cry even as had been prophesied by Samuel the prophet; for behold no man could keep that which was his own, for the thieves, and the robbers, and the murderers, and the magic art, and the witchcraft which was in the land.
11 Thus there began to be a mourning and a lamentation in all the land because of these things, and more especially among the people of Nephi.
12 And it came to pass that when I, Mormon, saw their lamentation and their mourning and their sorrow before the Lord, my heart did begin to rejoice within me, knowing the mercies and the long-suffering of the Lord, therefore supposing that he would be merciful unto them that they would again become a righteous people.
13 But behold this my joy was vain, for their sorrowing was not unto repentance, because of the goodness of God; but it was rather the sorrowing of the damned, because the Lord would not always suffer them to take happiness in sin.
14 And they did not come unto Jesus with broken hearts and contrite spirits, but they did curse God, and wish to die. Nevertheless they would struggle with the sword for their lives.
15 And it came to pass that my sorrow did return unto me again, and I saw that the day of grace was passed with them, both temporally and spiritually; for I saw thousands of them hewn down in open rebellion against their God, and heaped up as dung upon the face of the land. And thus *three hundred and forty and four years had passed away.

Mormon 3:2 And it came to pass that the Lord did say unto me: Cry unto this people—Repent ye, and come unto me, and be ye baptized, and build up again my church, and ye shall be spared.
3 And I did cry unto this people, but it was in vain; and they did not realize that it was the Lord that had spared them, and granted unto them a chance for repentance. And behold they did harden their hearts against the Lord their God.
8 And in the three hundred and sixty and second year they did come down again to battle. And we did beat them again, and did slay a great number of them, and their dead were cast into the sea.
9 And now, because of this great thing which my people, the Nephites, had done, they began to boast in their own strength, and began to swear before the heavens that they would avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren who had been slain by their enemies.
10 And they did swear by the heavens, and also by the throne of God, that they would go up to battle against their enemies, and would cut them off from the face of the land.
11 And it came to pass that I, Mormon, did utterly refuse from this time forth to be a commander and a leader of this people, because of their wickedness and abomination.
12 Behold, I had led them, notwithstanding their wickedness I had led them many times to battle, and had loved them, according to the love of God which was in me, with all my heart; and my soul had been poured out in prayer unto my God all the day long for them; nevertheless, it was without faith, because of the hardness of their hearts.
13 And thrice have I delivered them out of the hands of their enemies, and they have repented not of their sins.

Mormon 4:4 And it was because the armies of the Nephites went up unto the Lamanites that they began to be smitten; for were it not for that, the Lamanites could have had no power over them.
5 But, behold, the judgments of God will overtake the wicked; and it is by the wicked that the wicked are punished; for it is the wicked that stir up the hearts of the children of men unto bloodshed.
8 And it came to pass that they were repulsed and driven back by the Nephites. And when the Nephites saw that they had driven the Lamanites they did again boast of their own strength; and they went forth in their own might, and took possession again of the city Desolation.
9 And now all these things had been done, and there had been thousands slain on both sides, both the Nephites and the Lamanites.
10 And it came to pass that the three hundred and sixty and sixth year had passed away, and the Lamanites came again upon the Nephites to battle; and yet the Nephites repented not of the evil they had done, but persisted in their wickedness continually.
11 And it is impossible for the tongue to describe, or for man to write a perfect description of the horrible scene of the blood and carnage which was among the people, both of the Nephites and of the Lamanites; and every heart was hardened, so that they delighted in the shedding of blood continually.
13 And it came to pass that the Lamanites did take possession of the city Desolation, and this because their number did exceed the number of the Nephites.

Mormon 5:2 But behold, I was without hope, for I knew the judgments of the Lord which should come upon them; for they repented not of their iniquities, but did struggle for their lives without calling upon that Being who created them.
6 And it came to pass that in the three hundred and eightieth year the Lamanites did come again against us to battle, and we did stand against them boldly; but it was all in vain, for so great were their numbers that they did tread the people of the Nephites under their feet.
11 For I know that such will sorrow for the calamity of the house of Israel; yea, they will sorrow for the destruction of this people; they will sorrow that this people had not repented that they might have been clasped in the arms of Jesus.

Mormon 6:16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:
17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!
18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.
19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!
20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.
21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.
22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.

Mormon 8:6 Behold, four hundred years have passed away since the coming of our Lord and Savior.
7 And behold, the Lamanites have hunted my people, the Nephites, down from city to city and from place to place, even until they are no more; and great has been their fall; yea, great and marvelous is the destruction of my people, the Nephites.
8 And behold, it is the hand of the Lord which hath done it. And behold also, the Lamanites are at war one with another; and the whole face of this land is one continual round of murder and bloodshed; and no one knoweth the end of the war.
9 And now, behold, I say no more concerning them, for there are none save it be the Lamanites and robbers that do exist upon the face of the land.
10 And there are none that do know the true God save it be the disciples of Jesus, who did tarry in the land until the wickedness of the people was so great that the Lord would not suffer them to remain with the people; and whether they be upon the face of the land no man knoweth.

Moroni 8:27 Behold, my son, I will write unto you again if I go not out soon against the Lamanites. Behold, the pride of this nation, or the people of the Nephites, hath proven their destruction except they should repent.
28 Pray for them, my son, that repentance may come unto them. But behold, I fear lest the Spirit hath ceased striving with them; and in this part of the land they are also seeking to put down all power and authority which cometh from God; and they are denying the Holy Ghost.
29 And after rejecting so great a knowledge, my son, they must perish soon, unto the fulfilling of the prophecies which were spoken by the prophets, as well as the words of our Savior himself.

Moroni 9:18 O the depravity of my people! They are without order and without mercy. Behold, I am but a man, and I have but the strength of a man, and I cannot any longer enforce my commands.
19 And they have become strong in their perversion; and they are alike brutal, sparing none, neither old nor young; and they delight in everything save that which is good; and the suffering of our women and our children upon all the face of this land doth exceed everything; yea, tongue cannot tell, neither can it be written.
20 And now, my son, I dwell no longer upon this horrible scene. Behold, thou knowest the wickedness of this people; thou knowest that they are without principle, and past feeling; and their wickedness doth exceed that of the Lamanites.
21 Behold, my son, I cannot recommend them unto God lest he should smite me.
22 But behold, my son, I recommend thee unto God, and I trust in Christ that thou wilt be saved; and I pray unto God that he will spare thy life, to witness the return of his people unto him, or their utter destruction; for I know that they must perish except they repent and return unto him.
23 And if they perish it will be like unto the Jaredites, because of the wilfulness of their hearts, seeking for blood and revenge.

Ether 8:18 And it came to pass that they formed a secret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;
19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.
20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.
21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.
22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

2011, September 9

“Book of Mormon: The Similarities between the Lying Beliefs and Doctrines of the Wicked: Laman and Lemuel (in 1 Nephi 16); Korihor (Alma 30); and the Nephites (in Helaman 16)” by grego

Book of Mormon: The Similarities between the Lying Beliefs and Doctrines of the Wicked: Laman and Lemuel (in 1 Nephi 16); Korihor (Alma 30); and the Nephites (in Helaman 16)


Laman and Lemuel had seen and heard of many miracles up to this point: they had seen an angel; they had gotten the brass plates (ok, well at least Nephi had, which was even more of a miracle to them than if they had); they had known that Nephi got out of the bounds they tied him up with; they had seen the Liahona work; etc.

Yet, Laman still says this:
1 Nephi 16:37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us slay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that angels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his *cunning arts*, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman stir up their hearts to anger.

Compare that to this:
Alma 30:23 …And Korihor said unto him: Because I do not teach the foolish traditions of your fathers, and because I do not teach this people to bind themselves down under the foolish ordinances and performances which are laid down by ancient priests, to usurp power and authority over them, to keep them in ignorance, that they may not lift up their heads, but be brought down according to thy words.
24 Ye say that this people is a free people. Behold, I say they are in bondage. Ye say that those ancient prophecies are true. Behold, I say that ye do not know that they are true…
27 And thus ye lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers, and according to your own desires; and ye keep them down, even as it were in bondage, that ye may glut yourselves with the labors of their hands, that they durst not look up with boldness, and that they durst not enjoy their rights and privileges.
28 Yea, they durst not make use of that which is their own lest they should offend their priests, who do yoke them according to their desires, and have brought them to believe, by their traditions and their dreams and their whims and their visions and *their pretended mysteries*, that they should, if they did not do according to their words, offend some unknown being, who they say is God—a being who never has been seen or known, who never was nor ever will be.
29 Now when the high priest and the chief judge saw the hardness of his heart…
31 And [Korihor] did rise up in great swelling words before Alma, and did revile against the priests and teachers, accusing them of leading away the people after the silly traditions of their fathers, for the sake of glutting on the labors of the people.
32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people.

Compare that to this:
Helaman 16:13 But it came to pass in the ninetieth year of the reign of the judges, there were great signs given unto the people, and wonders; and the words of the prophets began to be fulfilled.
14 And angels did appear unto men, wise men, and did declare unto them glad tidings of great joy; thus in this year the scriptures began to be fulfilled.
15 Nevertheless, the people began to harden their hearts, all save it were the most believing part of them, both of the Nephites and also of the Lamanites, and began to depend upon their own strength and upon their own wisdom, saying:
16 Some things they may have guessed right, among so many; but behold, we know that all these great and marvelous works cannot come to pass, of which has been spoken.
17 And they began to reason and to contend among themselves, saying:
18 That it is not reasonable that such a being as a Christ shall come; if so, and he be the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, as it has been spoken, why will he not show himself unto us as well as unto them who shall be at Jerusalem?
19 Yea, why will he not show himself in this land as well as in the land of Jerusalem?
20 But behold, we know that this is a wicked tradition, which has been handed down unto us by our fathers, to cause us that we should believe in some great and marvelous thing which should come to pass, but not among us, but in a land which is far distant, a land which we know not; therefore they can keep us in ignorance, for we cannot witness with our own eyes that they are true.
21 And they will, by the *cunning and the mysterious arts of the evil one*, work some great mystery which we cannot understand, which will keep us down to be servants to their words, and also servants unto them, for we depend upon them to teach us the word; and thus will they keep us in ignorance if we will yield ourselves unto them, all the days of our lives.
22 And many more things did the people imagine up in their hearts, which were foolish and vain; and they were much disturbed, for Satan did stir them up to do iniquity continually; yea, he did go about spreading rumors and contentions upon all the face of the land, that he might harden the hearts of the people against that which was good and against that which should come.

As seen in the above three episodes, the wicked either forget or lie about their spiritual experiences; they often have no explanation for miracles against their own wickedness other than “cunning arts”, “mysteries”, “false and wicked traditions”, and “power of the devil”. Here are more:
Alma 15:15 But as to the people that were in the land of Ammonihah, they yet remained a hard-hearted and a stiffnecked people; and they repented not of their sins, *ascribing all the power of Alma and Amulek to the devil*; for they were of the profession of Nehor, and did not believe in the repentance of their sins.

Alma 44:9 Behold, we are not of your faith; we do not believe that it is God that has delivered us into your hands; but we believe that *it is your cunning* that has preserved you from our swords. Behold, it is your breastplates and your shields that have preserved you.

Helaman 16:6 But the more part of them did not believe in the words of Samuel; therefore when they saw that they could not hit him with their stones and their arrows, they cried unto their captains, saying: Take this fellow and bind him, for behold *he hath a devil; and because of the power of the devil which is in him we cannot hit him with our stones and our arrows*; therefore take him and bind him, and away with him.

This is also the prophesied claim the Jews would make against Jesus:
Mosiah 3:9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that *he hath a devil*, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.

But who is it that truly wants to exercise power over others, put people under slavery, and kill them for their own benefit, as Laman and Lemuel and other wicked people claim the righteous want to do?

1. The Lamanites—Laman, Lemuel, and the sons of Ishmael; and they taught their descendants wicked and false traditions so they would, too:

Mosiah 10:17 And thus they have taught their children that they should hate them, and that they should murder them, and that they should rob and plunder them, and do all they could to destroy them; therefore they have an eternal hatred towards the children of Nephi.
18 For this very cause has king Laman, by his cunning, and lying craftiness, and his fair promises, deceived me, that I have brought this my people up into this land, that they may destroy them; yea, and we have suffered these many years in the land.

Alma 20:13 And now when Lamoni had rehearsed unto him all these things, behold, to his astonishment, his father was angry with him, and said: Lamoni, thou art going to deliver these Nephites, who are sons of a liar. Behold, he robbed our fathers; and now his children are also come amongst us that they may, by their cunning and their lyings, deceive us, that they again may rob us of our property.
14 Now the father of Lamoni commanded him that he should slay Ammon with the sword. And he also commanded him that he should not go to the land of Middoni, but that he should return with him to the land of Ishmael.

Mosiah 7:15 For behold, we are in bondage to the Lamanites, and are taxed with a tax which is grievous to be borne. And now, behold, our brethren will deliver us out of our bondage, or out of the hands of the Lamanites, and we will be their slaves; for it is better that we be slaves to the Nephites than to pay tribute to the king of the Lamanites.

Mosiah 7:22 And all this he did, for the sole purpose of bringing this people into subjection or into bondage. And behold, we at this time do pay tribute to the king of the Lamanites, to the amount of one half of our corn, and our barley, and even all our grain of every kind, and one half of the increase of our flocks and our herds; and even one half of all we have or possess the king of the Lamanites doth exact of us, or our lives.

Mosiah 19:15 Therefore the Lamanites did spare their lives, and took them captives and carried them back to the land of Nephi, and granted unto them that they might possess the land, under the conditions that they would deliver up king Noah into the hands of the Lamanites, and deliver up their property, even one half of all they possessed, one half of their gold, and their silver, and all their precious things, and thus they should pay tribute to the king of the Lamanites from year to year.

Mosiah 19:26 And also Limhi, being the son of the king, having the kingdom conferred upon him by the people, made oath unto the king of the Lamanites that his people should pay tribute unto him, even one half of all they possessed.

2. The false priests, including Korihor:
Alma 30:53 But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me.

Jacob 7:17 … he (Sherem) spake plainly unto them and denied the things which he had taught them, and confessed the Christ, and the power of the Holy Ghost, and the ministering of angels.
18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil…

3. At the least most of the same people from Helaman 16:
3 Nephi 1:9 Now it came to pass that there was a day set apart by the unbelievers, that all those who believed in those traditions should be put to death except the sign should come to pass, which had been given by Samuel the prophet.

4. The big one, who led and leads all the others: Satan:
2 Nephi 9:45 O, my beloved brethren, turn away from your sins; shake off the chains of him that would bind you fast; come unto that God who is the rock of your salvation.

What about the Nephites?
Mosiah 2:13 Neither have I suffered that ye should be confined in dungeons, nor that ye should make slaves one of another, nor that ye should murder, or plunder, or steal, or commit adultery; nor even have I suffered that ye should commit any manner of wickedness, and have taught you that ye should keep the commandments of the Lord, in all things which he hath commanded you—

Alma 27:9 But Ammon said unto him: It is *against the law of our brethren, which was established by my father, that there should be any slaves among them*; therefore let us go down and rely upon the mercies of our brethren.

2 Nephi 26:32 And again, the Lord God hath commanded that men should not murder; that they should not lie; that they should not steal; that they should not take the name of the Lord their God in vain; that they should not envy; that they should not have malice; that they should not contend one with another; that they should not commit whoredoms; and that they should do none of these things; for whoso doeth them shall perish.

Freedom from the commandments leads to captivity and the abuse of power; obedience to the word of God through his prophets leads to freedom and good use of power.

2011, September 8

“9/11 Terrorist Attacks—To Believe the Government’s Official Story—or Not??” by grego

9/11 Terrorist Attacks—To Believe the Government’s Official Story—or Not??


I found this (thank you for linking to me!), got permission, changed it a little, and thought I’d share it:

Let’s start at the beginning with a question that first comes up in our minds: “Could anyone—other than full America-hating Islamist militants—do something like this? Could any American leader have anything to do with this?”

You know half the old women in Relief Society could never believe otherwise—and it’s understandable: they’re too full of charity and niceness and naivite’ to comprehend that someone “close to home”/ sophisticated might be that evil.

Add trauma on top of that (from repeatedly viewing all the destruction at the towers and the reports, etc.), and the natural result is disbelief/ shock—which results in the thinking part of the brain shutting down.
People aren’t purposefully lying, for example, when the girl slams the stopped car from behind, then denies she did anything (short true story). It’s a typical psychological reaction to extreme events that to a disinterested outsider seem apparent, but to a person involved are impossible.

So first, I suggest reading this article: . It might seem like a big step to go from Amalickiah to the perpetrators of 9/11, but the principles and examples from scripture might help.

Second, the best way to know how a person will perform/ whether he is capable of something, is to see his past performances–this goes for most everything from company hiring to gambling/ betting on sports.
So, has anything like this happened before? (Not that it proves anything, one way or the other. Just because it’s happened before, doesn’t mean this is the same thing; just because it’s never happened before, doesn’t mean there’s not a first time for everything.)
Yes, many things like this have happened before. If you look up “false flag operations + history”, you’ll find a nice list of events put on by the US government, especially related to war—events they have staged, falsified, blamed on “enemies”, and covered up. (NOTE: “government” does not mean everyone in it!!)

Third, does the church say anything about it? Not that it must, or ever would, or would even be fully correct or everyone in agreement. But some statements, or actions, might open a crack. (Someone on the web did a political/ historical analysis on President Packer’s parade talk, and what seemed like nothing turned into a big hidden statement I completely missed and though weird and trite.) I look at man of the statements from church leaders (in addition to others outside the church), and there is potential for general and even 9/11 statements.

Fourth, what information is out there? The mainstream media would have you believe “not much”. In fact, there is lots and lots of info out there, with all kinds of unanswered questions–some small, some big, some huge. But without the first few steps, why bother to go look and waste your time, right? That’s why those few steps are so helpful.

Fifth, how truthful is that information? Well, first realize, the main point is not whether we can explain exactly how it happened; to know how it didn’t happen is enough to start the ball rolling. That means the government is lying. When lie after lie after lie doesn’t really add up, there’s a big problem. (If you have children or were that type yourself at one time, you’ll likely understand.)

Will everyone be correct? Of course not. People are trying to find out info, piece things together, find out what really happened. That’s usually a lot harder It’s like watching a magic show. You see it, you know something’s up (well, I do know a few people who really believe it’s true magic, look at all the Criss Angel Mindfreak show people’s comments, the David Blaine show people’s comments–they KNOW he really did just…), you’re looking. You need a new frame of mind, different viewpoints, possible ways, understand the tools available, the viewpoints and assumptions of the viewers, etc. Each step shows you’re going in the right or the wrong direction, but it’s a step forward. Just like a bunch of people talking about how the magician did the trick (or even if it was a trick instead of real magic), the wrong comments are still helpful to brainstorm the correct/ more possible answer. Whether you get to the final exact conclusion, it is noted there are possible ways to create the illusion, and also it didn’t happen the way the magician says.
Are there possible answers to how much of 9/11 happened? Yes, there are.
Check out these: , .

Does the government have an explanation for everything? Those guilty in the government will ALWAYS either have an explanation (plausible or not, of course the more plausible the better) or ignore what it can’t explain, at least for the moment (even though they have all they should need to explain everything).
But what happens when lie after lie is exposed, only to have a “new solution” for the problem be given? This is typical of the pathological liar. They’ll say A, then when you say A was impossible, they’ll say B, then when B looks bad, they’ll say B2, not B1, etc. Look at the phone calls, for example. Whoops, cell phones might be impossible? Let’s slow the planes down, get them lower. Whoops, still a problem, let’s get out before we look too bad, they were really airplane phone calls, not cell phones. Whoops, records don’t check out…
But guess what? People get tired and mad, every time a new “correct” explanation is given all the believers nod their heads, until nonbelievers get tired of the game, and no one’s listening anymore anyway…

Are there any coincidences? Sure, one or two or three might not cause us to think much… But when they start adding up, there’s SOMETHING going on. What, who really knows, but something surely is up.
Check this out: That’s a mighty list of coincidences, and boy, those are big and WELL-BENEFITING coincidences. And this: .

Who benefits? What are most people after? Ahhhh… MONEY and POWER. That’s what most worldly people are after, right? So, did anyone get any? If so, who, and how, and why? Follow the money and power trail, that’s the strongest. Where does it lead in 9/11? To those high up in the US government, to those high up in the Israeli government, to private movers and shakers with special privileges, to Zionist groups and members.

On top of the coincidences, put money and power, and you have some things that should cause your head to whip around, like the financial situation with the towers that Col. Flagg explained, and like this:
“We just lost 2.3 trillion dollars in the Pentagon”, but luckily the records tracking the money were all destroyed the next day in the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon. Well, wipe the board! Aren’t we so lucky!
And on and on…

So, maybe it did happen close to the official government story. Or, maybe the conspiracy theorists have a much better idea of how it did happen, but are clear on one thing: it didn’t happen the way the government would have use believe it did.

2011, September 6

“Holy Bible/ Book of Mormon/ Doctrine and Covenants/ Pearl of Great Price: Satan’s False Spirit of Entitlement” by grego

Holy Bible/ Book of Mormon/ Doctrine and Covenants/ Pearl of Great Price: Satan’s False Spirit of Entitlement


Recently America has been plagued with people who have the spirit of entitlement; that “I deserve”, but which is clearly more in terms of “[someone] owes me”.
They can rarely clearly state what for, or make a case for why. It’s obviously not for work done, which is usually the standard for owing someone for something.
When gotten, gifts/ possessions are usually ill-used; then complaints of “not enough”, “not as much as the other guy”, etc. arise.
Appeasement, if given, lasts temporarily.
There is rarely any breaking to this cycle.

Who is the father of this false spirit of entitlement? Satan.

Let’s look at many scriptures that show this:
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:36 And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency;
37 And they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels;

Doctrine and Covenants 76:25 And this we (Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon) saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—–he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.

Moses 4:1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Satan just had to have God’s honor, but not by honest work. When he didn’t get what he thought he was entitled to (God’s honor and power and glory) using improper means, he sought to gain it by greater improper means.

The epitome of Satan’s false entitlement is given in the New Testament of the Bible:
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Huh?? Since when did Satan plan, create, possess, and control the earth and all its elements? It is all God’s, from the beginning to the end; Satan has never done anything for it or with it. Satan has only been given opportunity, but even then his bounds are set. These kingdoms of the world were not his to give; they were never his in the first place. He had control over some, no doubt; but of course this was all part of a big lie. Had Jesus worshiped him, would Satan have fulfilled his promise? Of course not.

Here’s a really enlightening encounter:
Moses 1:12 And it came to pass that when Moses had said these words, behold, Satan came tempting him, saying: Moses, son of man, worship me.
13 And it came to pass that Moses looked upon Satan and said: Who art thou? For behold, I am a son of God, in the similitude of his Only Begotten; and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee?
14 For behold, I could not look upon God, except his glory should come upon me, and I were transfigured before him. But I can look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so, surely?
15 Blessed be the name of my God, for his Spirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is thy glory, for it is darkness unto me? And I can judge between thee and God; for God said unto me: Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve.
16 Get thee hence, Satan; deceive me not; for God said unto me: Thou art after the similitude of mine Only Begotten.
17 And he also gave me commandments when he called unto me out of the burning bush, saying: Call upon God in the name of mine Only Begotten, and worship me.
18 And again Moses said: I will not cease to call upon God, I have other things to inquire of him: for his glory has been upon me, wherefore I can judge between him and thee. Depart hence, Satan.
19 And now, when Moses had said these words, Satan cried with a loud voice, and ranted upon the earth, and commanded, saying: I am the Only Begotten, worship me.
20 And it came to pass that Moses began to fear exceedingly; and as he began to fear, he saw the bitterness of hell. Nevertheless, calling upon God, he received strength, and he commanded, saying: Depart from me, Satan, for this one God only will I worship, which is the God of glory.
21 And now Satan began to tremble, and the earth shook; and Moses received strength, and called upon God, saying: In the name of the Only Begotten, depart hence, Satan.
22 And it came to pass that Satan cried with a loud voice, with weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and he departed hence, even from the presence of Moses, that he beheld him not.
Ok… So, Satan has this thing about needing to be worshiped by others, doing anything and everything he can to get it: lie and deceive, impersonate, rant, coerce, and throw a fit. But Moses had what Satan hates: the safety of the Only Begotten Son of God.

Satan’s entire existence has one purpose: to obtain power and even possession over others. He does this by destroying mankind, especially spiritually. He gains possession over their hearts in this life; thus, when the unrepentant wicked die, they are in his power, they are “his”, he has possessions that his spirit of entitlement drive him to obtain, and he believes that he is happy. It doesn’t matter to him how miserable he or those under him are, or that those under him can only be there because they are miserable:
3 Nephi 9:2 Wo, wo, wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent; for the devil laugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people; and it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen!

Here are some more powerful and clear scriptures that show Satan’s purpose:
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 Nephi 14:3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.

1 Nephi 15:24 …neither could the temptations and the fiery darts of the adversary overpower them unto blindness, to lead them away to destruction.

Alma 12:6 And behold I say unto you all that this was a snare of the adversary, which he has laid to catch this people, that he might bring you into subjection unto him, that he might encircle you about with his chains, that he might chain you down to everlasting destruction, according to the power of his captivity.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
17 Then is the time when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will.

Alma 34:39 Yea, and I also exhort you, my brethren, that ye be watchful unto prayer continually, that ye may not be led away by the temptations of the devil, that he may not overpower you, that ye may not become his subjects at the last day; for behold, he rewardeth you no good thing.

Helaman 16:22 And many more things did the people imagine up in their hearts, which were foolish and vain; and they were much disturbed, for Satan did stir them up to do iniquity continually; yea, he did go about spreading rumors and contentions upon all the face of the land, that he might harden the hearts of the people against that which was good and against that which should come.
23 And notwithstanding the signs and the wonders which were wrought among the people of the Lord, and the many miracles which they did, Satan did get great hold upon the hearts of the people upon all the face of the land.

3 Nephi 2:1 And it came to pass that thus passed away the ninety and fifth year also, and the people began to forget those signs and wonders which they had heard, and began to be less and less astonished at a sign or a wonder from heaven, insomuch that they began to be hard in their hearts, and blind in their minds, and began to disbelieve all which they had heard and seen—
2 Imagining up some vain thing in their hearts, that it was wrought by men and by the power of the devil, to lead away and deceive the hearts of the people; and thus did Satan get possession of the hearts of the people again, insomuch that he did blind their eyes and lead them away to believe that the doctrine of Christ was a foolish and a vain thing.
3 And it came to pass that the people began to wax strong in wickedness and abominations; and they did not believe that there should be any more signs or wonders given; and Satan did go about, leading away the hearts of the people, tempting them and causing them that they should do great wickedness in the land.

Ether 8:25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

Doctrine and Covenants 82:5 Therefore, what I say unto one I say unto all: Watch, for the adversary spreadeth his dominions, and darkness reigneth;

To show that Satan will try to claim anything and everyone, here’s another example of Satan’s attitude of “Give me what’s mine, give what I want!”:
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Satan thought Michael was taking Moses to heaven, but Moses had not died, nor had Christ been resurrected; in other words, Satan claimed that God was trying to cheat death, and his claim on Moses’ dead body (not soul). But it was not the case—Moses was being translated; his death would occur later, however quick (or long); Satan could lay no claim, and therefore was rebuked by the priesthood.

Here’s a good summary scripture:
2 Nephi 2:17 And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil before God.
18 And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind. Wherefore, he said unto Eve, yea, even that old serpent, who is the devil, who is the father of all lies, wherefore he said: Partake of the forbidden fruit, and ye shall not die, but ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil…
26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.
27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.
28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit;
29 And not choose eternal death, according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell, that he may reign over you in his own kingdom.

Satan is real; he wants anything and everything, but doesn’t want to do anything to earn it, especially anything that requires love.
His followers are the same. They all want to possess power and dominion over everyone else, but are not wiling to do it righteously, nor will they use that power and dominion righteously, if they obtain it.
So if you see yourself heading in that direction, pull back and change course to a better ending!

2011, September 2

“Book of Mormon | The Most Meaningful Parallels and Irony in the Gospel of Jesus Christ: Lifting up and Judgment (1 Nephi 11:32; 3 Nephi 27:14)” by grego

Book of Mormon | The Most Meaningful Parallels and Irony in the Gospel of Jesus Christ: Lifting up and Judgment (1 Nephi 11:32-33; 3 Nephi 27:14-17)


1 Nephi 11:32 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me again, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record.
33 And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.

3 Nephi 27:14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—
15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.
16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.

As according to the Father’s will, Jesus Christ was judged by people and lifted up, to be a slain sacrifice;
He will lift up all people (through the Resurrection and into His presence) to be judged, and receive eternal life… or not.

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