Book of Mormon Notes– How deep can you dig?

2020, April 17

Book of Mormon | 1 Nephi, 2 Nephi: Laman and Lemuel: Bad Things (Complain/ Murmur/ Angry/ Rebel/ Lie/ Hurt/ Try to Kill) vs. Good Things (Persuaded/ Humble/ Repent/ Obey)

1 Nephi, 2 Nephi: Laman and Lemuel: Bad Things (Complain/ Murmur/ Angry/ Rebel/ Lie/ Hurt/ Try to Kill) vs. Good Things (Persuaded/ Humble/ Repent/ Obey)
(c) grego

This is recording answers to these questions:
How many times did Laman and Lemuel complain/murmur, get angry, rebel, lie, hurt, and/ or try to kill someone?
How many times did Laman and Lemuel obey/ repent, and under what circumstances?

Summary: It’s incredible the patience that Lehi and Nephi had with Laman and Lemuel, and for all the right reasons. It’s incredible how Laman and Lemuel were so hard-headed and hard-hearted so many times, and for all the wrong reasons.

OBEY:  they leave Jerusalem when their father asks them to
1 Nephi 2:5 And he came down by the borders near the shore of the Red Sea; and he traveled in the wilderness in the borders which are nearer the Red Sea; and he did travel in the wilderness with his family, which consisted of my mother, Sariah, and my elder brothers, who were Laman, Lemuel, and Sam.

MURMUR:  father is foolish, etc.
DESIRE TO KILL LEHI?:  “like the Jews who were at Jerusalem, who sought to take away the life of my father.”
1 Nephi 2:8 And it came to pass that he called the name of the river, Laman, and it emptied into the Red Sea; and the valley was in the borders near the mouth thereof.
1 Nephi 2:9 And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Laman, saying: O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness!
1 Nephi 2:10 And he also spake unto Lemuel: O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast, and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord!
1 Nephi 2:11 Now this he spake because of the stiffneckedness of Laman and Lemuel; for behold they did murmur in many things against their father, because he was a visionary man, and had led them out of the land of Jerusalem, to leave the land of their inheritance, and their gold, and their silver, and their precious things, to perish in the wilderness. And this they said he had done because of the foolish imaginations of his heart.
1 Nephi 2:12 And thus Laman and Lemuel, being the eldest, did murmur against their father. And they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them.
1 Nephi 2:13 Neither did they believe that Jerusalem, that great city, could be destroyed according to the words of the prophets. And they were like unto the Jews who were at Jerusalem, who sought to take away the life of my father.

PERSUADED, OBEY: after Lehi counsels, scares them
1 Nephi 2:14 And it came to pass that my father did speak unto them in the valley of Lemuel, with power, being filled with the Spirit, until their frames did shake before him. And he did confound them, that they durst not utter against him; wherefore, they did as he commanded them.

REBEL:  against father
DON’T LISTEN:  to Nephi, don’t believe
1 Nephi 2:16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers.
1 Nephi 2:17 And I spake unto Sam, making known unto him the things which the Lord had manifested unto me by his Holy Spirit. And it came to pass that he believed in my words.
1 Nephi 2:18 But, behold, Laman and Lemuel would not hearken unto my words; and being grieved because of the hardness of their hearts I cried unto the Lord for them.

MURMUR:  don’t want to get plates
1 Nephi 3:2 And it came to pass that he spake unto me, saying: Behold I have dreamed a dream, in the which the Lord hath commanded me that thou and thy brethren shall return to Jerusalem.

1 Nephi 3:5 And now, behold thy brothers murmur, saying it is a hard thing which I have required of them; but behold I have not required it of them, but it is a commandment of the Lord.

PERSUADED, REPENT:  stay with Nephi to get plates, help with plan #2
1 Nephi 3:14 But Laman fled out of his presence, and told the things which Laban had done, unto us. And we began to be exceedingly sorrowful, and my brethren were about to return unto my father in the wilderness.
1 Nephi 3:15 But behold I said unto them that: As the Lord liveth, and as we live, we will not go down unto our father in the wilderness until we have accomplished the thing which the Lord hath commanded us.
1 Nephi 3:16 Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of our father’s inheritance, for behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done because of the commandments of the Lord.
1 Nephi 3:17 For he knew that Jerusalem must be destroyed, because of the wickedness of the people.
1 Nephi 3:18 For behold, they have rejected the words of the prophets. Wherefore, if my father should dwell in the land after he hath been commanded to flee out of the land, behold, he would also perish. Wherefore, it must needs be that he flee out of the land.
1 Nephi 3:19 And behold, it is wisdom in God that we should obtain these records, that we may preserve unto our children the language of our fathers;
1 Nephi 3:20 And also that we may preserve unto them the words which have been spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets, which have been delivered unto them by the Spirit and power of God, since the world began, even down unto this present time.
1 Nephi 3:21 And it came to pass that after this manner of language did I persuade my brethren, that they might be faithful in keeping the commandments of God.

ANGRY, HURT:  hit Nephi and Sam with a rod
MURMUR:  God can’t do it
PERSUADED:  by angel
1 Nephi 3:27 And it came to pass that we fled into the wilderness, and the servants of Laban did not overtake us, and we hid ourselves in the cavity of a rock.
1 Nephi 3:28 And it came to pass that Laman was angry with me, and also with my father; and also was Lemuel, for he hearkened unto the words of Laman. Wherefore Laman and Lemuel did speak many hard words unto us, their younger brothers, and they did smite us even with a rod.
1 Nephi 3:29 And it came to pass as they smote us with a rod, behold, an angel of the Lord came and stood before them, and he spake unto them, saying: Why do ye smite your younger brother with a rod? Know ye not that the Lord hath chosen him to be a ruler over you, and this because of your iniquities? Behold ye shall go up to Jerusalem again, and the Lord will deliver Laban into your hands.
1 Nephi 3:30 And after the angel had spoken unto us, he departed.
1 Nephi 3:31 And after the angel had departed, Laman and Lemuel again began to murmur, saying: How is it possible that the Lord will deliver Laban into our hands? Behold, he is a mighty man, and he can command fifty, yea, even he can slay fifty; then why not us?

PERSUADED: by Nephi; follow but wait for Nephi outside where it’s safe
1 Nephi 4:1 AND it came to pass that I spake unto my brethren, saying: Let us go up again unto Jerusalem, and let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; for behold he is mightier than all the earth, then why not mightier than Laban and his fifty, yea, or even than his tens of thousands?
1 Nephi 4:2 Therefore let us go up; let us be strong like unto Moses; for he truly spake unto the waters of the Red Sea and they divided hither and thither, and our fathers came through, out of captivity, on dry ground, and the armies of Pharaoh did follow and were drowned in the waters of the Red Sea.
1 Nephi 4:3 Now behold ye know that this is true; and ye also know that an angel hath spoken unto you; wherefore can ye doubt? Let us go up; the Lord is able to deliver us, even as our fathers, and to destroy Laban, even as the Egyptians.
1 Nephi 4:4 Now when I had spoken these words, they were yet wroth, and did still continue to murmur; nevertheless they did follow me up until we came without the walls of Jerusalem.
1 Nephi 4:5 And it was by night; and I caused that they should hide themselves without the walls. And after they had hid themselves, I, Nephi, crept into the city and went forth towards the house of Laban.

REBEL: want to go back to Jerusalem and stay
1 Nephi 7:6 And it came to pass that as we journeyed in the wilderness, behold Laman and Lemuel, and two of the daughters of Ishmael, and the two sons of Ishmael and their families, did rebel against us; yea, against me, Nephi, and Sam, and their father, Ishmael, and his wife, and his three other daughters.
1 Nephi 7:7 And it came to pass in the which rebellion, they were desirous to return unto the land of Jerusalem.

PERSUADED (failed): Nephi tells them to not go back
1 Nephi 7:8 And now I, Nephi, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, therefore I spake unto them, saying, yea, even unto Laman and unto Lemuel: Behold ye are mine elder brethren, and how is it that ye are so hard in your hearts, and so blind in your minds, that ye have need that I, your younger brother, should speak unto you, yea, and set an example for you?
1 Nephi 7:13 And if it so be that we are faithful to him, we shall obtain the land of promise; and ye shall know at some future period that the word of the Lord shall be fulfilled concerning the destruction of Jerusalem; for all things which the Lord hath spoken concerning the destruction of Jerusalem must be fulfilled.
1 Nephi 7:14 For behold, the Spirit of the Lord ceaseth soon to strive with them; for behold, they have rejected the prophets, and Jeremiah have they cast into prison. And they have sought to take away the life of my father, insomuch that they have driven him out of the land.
1 Nephi 7:15 Now behold, I say unto you that if ye will return unto Jerusalem ye shall also perish with them. And now, if ye have choice, go up to the land, and remember the words which I speak unto you, that if ye go ye will also perish; for thus the Spirit of the Lord constraineth me that I should speak.

KILL: they tie Nephi up and leave him to die
1 Nephi 7:16 And it came to pass that when I, Nephi, had spoken these words unto my brethren, they were angry with me. And it came to pass that they did lay their hands upon me, for behold, they were exceedingly wroth, and they did bind me with cords, for they sought to take away my life, that they might leave me in the wilderness to be devoured by wild beasts.
1 Nephi 7:17 But it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, according to my faith which is in thee, wilt thou deliver me from the hands of my brethren; yea, even give me strength that I may burst these bands with which I am bound.
1 Nephi 7:18 And it came to pass that when I had said these words, behold, the bands were loosed from off my hands and feet, and I stood before my brethren, and I spake unto them again.

KILL: try it again
PERSUADED: by Ishmael’s wife and daughter and son
1 Nephi 7:19 And it came to pass that they were angry with me again, and sought to lay hands upon me; but behold, one of the daughters of Ishmael, yea, and also her mother, and one of the sons of Ishmael, did plead with my brethren, insomuch that they did soften their hearts; and they did cease striving to take away my life.

PERSUADED, REPENT, OBEY: sorry, bow down before Nephi, ask forgiveness
1 Nephi 7:20 And it came to pass that they were sorrowful, because of their wickedness, insomuch that they did bow down before me, and did plead with me that I would forgive them of the thing that they had done against me.
1 Nephi 7:21 And it came to pass that I did frankly forgive them all that they had done, and I did exhort them that they would pray unto the Lord their God for forgiveness. And it came to pass that they did so. And after they had done praying unto the Lord we did again travel on our journey towards the tent of our father.

PERSUADED (any use??): by Lehi and his dream
1 Nephi 8:3 And behold, because of the thing which I have seen, I have reason to rejoice in the Lord because of Nephi and also of Sam; for I have reason to suppose that they, and also many of their seed, will be saved.
1 Nephi 8:4 But behold, Laman and Lemuel, I fear exceedingly because of you; for behold, methought I saw in my dream, a dark and dreary wilderness.
1 Nephi 8:35 And Laman and Lemuel partook not of the fruit, said my father.
1 Nephi 8:36 And it came to pass after my father had spoken all the words of his dream or vision, which were many, he said unto us, because of these things which he saw in a vision, he exceedingly feared for Laman and Lemuel; yea, he feared lest they should be cast off from the presence of the Lord.
1 Nephi 8:37 And he did exhort them then with all the feeling of a tender parent, that they would hearken to his words, that perhaps the Lord would be merciful to them, and not cast them off; yea, my father did preach unto them.
1 Nephi 8:38 And after he had preached unto them, and also prophesied unto them of many things, he bade them to keep the commandments of the Lord; and he did cease speaking unto them.

PERSUADED: by Nephi
MURMUR: your words hurt us too much
PERSUADED: by Nephi
REPENT, OBEY
1 Nephi 15:25 Wherefore, I, Nephi, did exhort them to give heed unto the word of the Lord; yea, I did exhort them with all the energies of my soul, and with all the faculty which I possessed, that they would give heed to the word of God and remember to keep his commandments always in all things.
1 Nephi 16:1 AND now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
1 Nephi 16:2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
1 Nephi 16:3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might walk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
1 Nephi 16:4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
1 Nephi 16:5 And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

ANGRY: with Nephi because he breaks his bow
1 Nephi 16:18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine steel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

MURMUR: no food; all other problems
1 Nephi 16:20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did murmur against the Lord.
1 Nephi 16:21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their springs, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
1 Nephi 16:22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto complaining against the Lord their God.

PERSUADED: by Nephi
HUMBLE
1 Nephi 16:24 And it came to pass that he did inquire of the Lord, for they had humbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

PERSUADED: by Liahona’s words
1 Nephi 16:27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were written upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

HUMBLE, REPENT: after Nephi returns with food
1 Nephi 16:32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained food, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

MURMUR (daughters of Ishmael)
LIE, KILL: plan to kill Lehi, Nephi
[1 Nephi 16:35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did mourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their afflictions in the wilderness; and they did murmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
1 Nephi 16:36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to return again to Jerusalem.]
1 Nephi 16:37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us slay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
1 Nephi 16:38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that angels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman stir up their hearts to anger.

PERSUADED: by Lord
REPENT: and lived
1 Nephi 16:39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did chasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

PERSUADED: by Nephi
1 Nephi 17:15 Wherefore, I, Nephi, did strive to keep the commandments of the Lord, and I did exhort my brethren to faithfulness and diligence.

MURMUR: Nephi can’t build boat; Lehi is foolish
REBEL: don’t help, want Nephi to fail
1 Nephi 17:17 And when my brethren saw that I was about to build a ship, they began to murmur against me, saying: Our brother is a fool, for he thinketh that he can build a ship; yea, and he also thinketh that he can cross these great waters.
1 Nephi 17:18 And thus my brethren did complain against me, and were desirous that they might not labor, for they did not believe that I could build a ship; neither would they believe that I was instructed of the Lord.
1 Nephi 17:19 And now it came to pass that I, Nephi, was exceedingly sorrowful because of the hardness of their hearts; and now when they saw that I began to be sorrowful they were glad in their hearts, insomuch that they did rejoice over me, saying: We knew that ye could not construct a ship, for we knew that ye were lacking in judgment; wherefore, thou canst not accomplish so great a work.
1 Nephi 17:20 And thou art like unto our father, led away by the foolish imaginations of his heart; yea, he hath led us out of the land of Jerusalem, and we have wandered in the wilderness for these many years; and our women have toiled, being big with child; and they have borne children in the wilderness and suffered all things, save it were death; and it would have been better that they had died before they came out of Jerusalem than to have suffered these afflictions.
1 Nephi 17:21 Behold, these many years we have suffered in the wilderness, which time we might have enjoyed our possessions and the land of our inheritance; yea, and we might have been happy.
1 Nephi 17:22 And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words; yea, and our brother is like unto him. And after this manner of language did my brethren murmur and complain against us.

PERSUADED (no use): by Nephi; and reminded they are murderers in their hearts
1 Nephi 17:44 Wherefore, the Lord commanded my father that he should depart into the wilderness; and the Jews also sought to take away his life; yea, and ye also have sought to take away his life; wherefore, ye are murderers in your hearts and ye are like unto them.

PERSUADED (no use): many times, by angel, God
45 Ye are swift to do iniquity but slow to remember the Lord your God. Ye have seen an angel, and he spake unto you; yea, ye have heard his voice from time to time; and he hath spoken unto you in a still small voice, but ye were past feeling, that ye could not feel his words; wherefore, he has spoken unto you like unto the voice of thunder, which did cause the earth to shake as if it were to divide asunder.
47 Behold, my soul is rent with anguish because of you, and my heart is pained; I fear lest ye shall be cast off forever. Behold, I am full of the Spirit of God, insomuch that my frame has no strength.

ANGRY, KILL: throw Nephi in sea
MURMUR: against Lehi
PERSUADED: by Nephi’s threat of death; then admonitions
48 And now it came to pass that when I had spoken these words they were angry with me, and were desirous to throw me into the depths of the sea; and as they came forth to lay their hands upon me I spake unto them, saying: In the name of the Almighty God, I command you that ye touch me not, for I am filled with the power of God, even unto the consuming of my flesh; and whoso shall lay his hands upon me shall wither even as a dried reed; and he shall be as naught before the power of God, for God shall smite him.
49 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto them that they should murmur no more against their father; neither should they withhold their labor from me, for God had commanded me that I should build a ship.
50 And I said unto them: If God had commanded me to do all things I could do them. If he should command me that I should say unto this water, be thou earth, it should be earth; and if I should say it, it would be done.
51 And now, if the Lord has such great power, and has wrought so many miracles among the children of men, how is it that he cannot instruct me, that I should build a ship?
52 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend against me; neither durst they lay their hands upon me nor touch me with their fingers, even for the space of many days. Now they durst not do this lest they should wither before me, so powerful was the Spirit of God; and thus it had wrought upon them.

PERSUADED: by a shock
53 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: Stretch forth thine hand again unto thy brethren, and they shall not wither before thee, but I will shock them, saith the Lord, and this will I do, that they may know that I am the Lord their God.
54 And it came to pass that I stretched forth my hand unto my brethren, and they did not wither before me; but the Lord did shake them, even according to the word which he had spoken.

REPENT, OBEY: bow down to Nephi
55 And now, they said: We know of a surety that the Lord is with thee, for we know that it is the power of the Lord that has shaken us. And they fell down before me, and were about to worship me, but I would not suffer them, saying: I am thy brother, yea, even thy younger brother; wherefore, worship the Lord thy God, and honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long in the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee.
1 Nephi 18:1 And it came to pass that they did worship the Lord, and did go forth with me; and we did work timbers of curious workmanship. And the Lord did show me from time to time after what manner I should work the timbers of the ship.

HUMBLE: willingly, this time, as ship was good
4 And it came to pass that after I had finished the ship, according to the word of the Lord, my brethren beheld that it was good, and that the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine; wherefore, they did humble themselves again before the Lord.

PERSUADED: by Nephi to be sober
ANGRY: don’t want to listen
9 And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days, behold, my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness, yea, even that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither; yea, they were lifted up unto exceeding rudeness.
10 And I, Nephi, began to fear exceedingly lest the Lord should be angry with us, and smite us because of our iniquity, that we should be swallowed up in the depths of the sea; wherefore, I, Nephi, began to speak to them with much soberness; but behold they were angry with me, saying: We will not that our younger brother shall be a ruler over us.

HURT: tie up Nephi
11 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel did take me and bind me with cords, and they did treat me with much harshness; nevertheless, the Lord did suffer it that he might show forth his power, unto the fulfilling of his word which he had spoken concerning the wicked.

PERSUADED (no use): Liahona stops
12 And it came to pass that after they had bound me insomuch that I could not move, the compass, which had been prepared of the Lord, did cease to work.

PERSUADED, REPENT: about to drown
13 Wherefore, they knew not whither they should steer the ship, insomuch that there arose a great storm, yea, a great and terrible tempest, and we were driven back upon the waters for the space of three days; and they began to be frightened exceedingly lest they should be drowned in the sea; nevertheless they did not loose me.
14 And on the fourth day, which we had been driven back, the tempest began to be exceedingly sore.
15 And it came to pass that we were about to be swallowed up in the depths of the sea. And after we had been driven back upon the waters for the space of four days, my brethren began to see that the judgments of God were upon them, and that they must perish save that they should repent of their iniquities; wherefore, they came unto me, and loosed the bands which were upon my wrists, and behold they had swollen exceedingly; and also mine ankles were much swollen, and great was the soreness thereof.

20 And there was nothing save it were the power of God, which threatened them with destruction, could soften their hearts; wherefore, when they saw that they were about to be swallowed up in the depths of the sea they repented of the thing which they had done, insomuch that they loosed me.

PERSUADED (no use): by Lehi, sons of Ishamel, Sariah, Jacob and Joseph, Nephi’s wife and children
17 Now my father, Lehi, had said many things unto them, and also unto the sons of Ishmael; but, behold, they did breathe out much threatenings against anyone that should speak for me; and my parents being stricken in years, and having suffered much grief because of their children, they were brought down, yea, even upon their sick-beds.
18 Because of their grief and much sorrow, and the iniquity of my brethren, they were brought near even to be carried out of this time to meet their God; yea, their grey hairs were about to be brought down to lie low in the dust; yea, even they were near to be cast with sorrow into a watery grave.
19 And Jacob and Joseph also, being young, having need of much nourishment, were grieved because of the afflictions of their mother; and also my wife with her tears and prayers, and also my children, did not soften the hearts of my brethren that they would loose me.

HUMBLE: let Nephi go, don’t cause further problems
21 And it came to pass after they had loosed me, behold, I took the compass, and it did work whither I desired it. And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord; and after I had prayed the winds did cease, and the storm did cease, and there was a great calm.
22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did guide the ship, that we sailed again towards the promised land.

PERSUADED: by Nephi, scriptures
1 Nephi 19:22 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, did teach my brethren these things; and it came to pass that I did read many things to them, which were engraven upon the plates of brass, that they might know concerning the doings of the Lord in other lands, among people of old.
23 And I did read many things unto them which were written in the books of Moses; but that I might more fully persuade them to believe in the Lord their Redeemer I did read unto them that which was written by the prophet Isaiah; for I did liken all scriptures unto us, that it might be for our profit and learning.
1 Nephi 20:1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had read these things which were engraven upon the plates of brass, my brethren came unto me and said unto me: What meaneth these things which ye have read? Behold, are they to be understood according to things which are spiritual, which shall come to pass according to the spirit and not the flesh?
31 Wherefore, ye need not suppose that I and my father are the only ones that have testified, and also taught them. Wherefore, if ye shall be obedient to the commandments, and endure to the end, ye shall be saved at the last day. And thus it is. Amen.

MURMUR: don’t like Nephi’s speaking
REBEL: against Nephi
PERSUADED: by Lehi
2 Nephi 1:17 My heart hath been weighed down with sorrow from time to time, for I have feared, lest for the hardness of your hearts the Lord your God should come out in the fulness of his wrath upon you, that ye be cut off and destroyed forever;

24 Rebel no more against your brother, whose views have been glorious, and who hath kept the commandments from the time that we left Jerusalem; and who hath been an instrument in the hands of God, in bringing us forth into the land of promise; for were it not for him, we must have perished with hunger in the wilderness; nevertheless, ye sought to take away his life; yea, and he hath suffered much sorrow because of you.
25 And I exceedingly fear and tremble because of you, lest he shall suffer again; for behold, ye have accused him that he sought power and authority over you; but I know that he hath not sought for power nor authority over you, but he hath sought the glory of God, and your own eternal welfare.
26 And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you. Ye say that he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold, his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your iniquities.
27 And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto his commanding you that ye must obey. But behold, it was not he, but it was the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance that he could not shut it.
28 And now my son, Laman, and also Lemuel and Sam, and also my sons who are the sons of Ishmael, behold, if ye will hearken unto the voice of Nephi ye shall not perish. And if ye will hearken unto him I leave unto you a blessing, yea, even my first blessing.
29 But if ye will not hearken unto him I take away my first blessing, yea, even my blessing, and it shall rest upon him.

PERSUADED (fail): Lehi and Nephi try
KILL: angry with Nephi for speaking “the admonitions of the Lord”
2 Nephi 4:13 And it came to pass that not many days after his death, Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael were angry with me because of the admonitions of the Lord.
14 For I, Nephi, was constrained to speak unto them, according to his word; for I had spoken many things unto them, and also my father, before his death; many of which sayings are written upon mine other plates; for a more history part are written upon mine other plates.
2 Nephi 5:1 Behold, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did cry much unto the Lord my God, because of the anger of my brethren.
2 But behold, their anger did increase against me, insomuch that they did seek to take away my life.

LIE, HURT, TEACH TO HATE AND KILL: taught children lies as reasons to murder Nephites
Mosiah 10:12 They were a wild, and ferocious, and a blood-thirsty people, believing in the tradition of their fathers, which is this—Believing that they were driven out of the land of Jerusalem because of the iniquities of their fathers, and that they were wronged in the wilderness by their brethren, and they were also wronged while crossing the sea;
13 And again, that they were wronged while in the land of their first inheritance, after they had crossed the sea, and all this because that Nephi was more faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord—therefore he was favored of the Lord, for the Lord heard his prayers and answered them, and he took the lead of their journey in the wilderness.
14 And his brethren were wroth with him because they understood not the dealings of the Lord; they were also wroth with him upon the waters because they hardened their hearts against the Lord.
15 And again, they were wroth with him when they had arrived in the promised land, because they said that he had taken the ruling of the people out of their hands; and they sought to kill him.
16 And again, they were wroth with him because he departed into the wilderness as the Lord had commanded him, and took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, for they said that he robbed them.
17 And thus they have taught their children that they should hate them, and that they should murder them, and that they should rob and plunder them, and do all they could to destroy them; therefore they have an eternal hatred towards the children of Nephi.

HURT: taught children to not believe
4 Nephi 1:38 And it came to pass that they who rejected the gospel were called Lamanites, and Lemuelites, and Ishmaelites; and they did not dwindle in unbelief, but they did wilfully rebel against the gospel of Christ; and they did teach their children that they should not believe, even as their fathers, from the beginning, did dwindle.

2020, April 16

Book of Mormon | Alma 37:23–“A Stone… which shall shine forth in darkness unto light” to know hidden darkness

Book of Mormon | Alma 37:23–“A Stone… which shall shine forth in darkness unto light” to know hidden darkness

(c) grego

This is what we have in the Book of Mormon about the translation.  Interestingly, while the Urim and Thummim are called interpreters, Alma 37:23 says that God also prepared “a stone, which shall shine forth in darkness unto light…”  It seems like these are two different things, as in Alma 37:21 Alma calls the Urim and Thummim “these interpreters”, plural, like every other time.

Mosiah 8:13 Now Ammon said unto him: I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters, and no man can look in them except he be commanded, lest he should look for that he ought not and he should perish. And whosoever is commanded to look in them, the same is called seer.
19 And now, when Ammon had made an end of speaking these words the king rejoiced exceedingly, and gave thanks to God, saying: Doubtless a great mystery is contained within these plates, and these interpreters were doubtless prepared for the purpose of unfolding all such mysteries to the children of men.

Alma 37:21 And now, I will speak unto you concerning those twenty-four plates, that ye keep them, that the mysteries and the works of darkness, and their secret works, or the secret works of those people who have been destroyed, may be made manifest unto this people; yea, all their murders, and robbings, and their plunderings, and all their wickedness and abominations, may be made manifest unto this people; yea, and that ye preserve these interpreters.
22 For behold, the Lord saw that his people began to work in darkness, yea, work secret murders and abominations; therefore the Lord said, if they did not repent they should be destroyed from off the face of the earth.
23 And the Lord said: I will prepare unto my servant Gazelem, A STONE, which shall shine forth in darkness unto light, that I may discover unto my people who serve me, that I may discover unto them the works of their brethren, yea, their secret works, their works of darkness, and their wickedness and abominations.
24 And now, my son, these interpreters were prepared that the word of God might be fulfilled, which he spake, saying:
25 I will bring forth out of darkness unto light all their secret works and their abominations; and except they repent I will destroy them from off the face of the earth; and I will bring to light all their secrets and abominations, unto every nation that shall hereafter possess the land.
26 And now, my son, we see that they did not repent; therefore they have been destroyed, and thus far the word of God has been fulfilled; yea, their secret abominations have been brought out of darkness and made known unto us.

5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.

Book of Mormon | Mosiah 10:13–Nephi Led the Lehites in the Wilderness

In Mosiah 10, Zeniff explains the Lamanites’ hatred towards the Nephites. Interestingly, we get just a little more insight–that Nephi actually “took the lead of their journey in the wilderness”:

Mosiah 10:12 They were a wild, and ferocious, and a blood-thirsty people, believing in the tradition of their fathers, which is this—Believing that they were driven out of the land of Jerusalem because of the iniquities of their fathers, and that they were wronged in the wilderness by their brethren, and they were also wronged while crossing the sea;

13 And again, that they were wronged while in the land of their first inheritance, after they had crossed the sea, and all this because that Nephi was more faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord—therefore he was favored of the Lord, for the Lord heard his prayers and answered them, and he took the lead of their journey in the wilderness.

14 And his brethren were wroth with him because they understood not the dealings of the Lord; they were also wroth with him upon the waters because they hardened their hearts against the Lord.

15 And again, they were wroth with him when they had arrived in the promised land, because they said that he had taken the ruling of the people out of their hands; and they sought to kill him.

16 And again, they were wroth with him because he departed into the wilderness as the Lord had commanded him, and took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, for they said that he robbed them.

Book of Mormon | Mosiah 7:25–More about Mosiah 19 and the Anti-King Rebellion

In Mosiah 7:25, we learn that the division and contention in Mosiah 19 (later in the book, but earlier in time) was actual internal fighting and bloodshed between the king’s faction and the anti-king’s faction, likely led by Gideon. There wasn’t just arguing and pushing, and then Gideon chased the king, but battle.

Mosiah 7:25 For if this people had not fallen into transgression the Lord would not have suffered that this great evil should come upon them. But behold, they would not hearken unto his words; but there arose contentions among them, even so much that they did shed blood among themselves.
26 And a prophet of the Lord have they slain; yea, a chosen man of God, who told them of their wickedness and abominations, and prophesied of many things which are to come, yea, even the coming of Christ.

Mosiah 19:1 And it came to pass that the army of the king returned, having searched in vain for the people of the Lord.
2 And now behold, the forces of the king were small, having been reduced, and there began to be a division among the remainder of the people.
3 And the lesser part began to breathe out threatenings against the king, and there began to be a great contention among them.

4 And now there was a man among them whose name was Gideon, and he being a strong man and an enemy to the king, therefore he drew his sword, and swore in his wrath that he would slay the king.
5 And it came to pass that he fought with the king; and when the king saw that he was about to overpower him, he fled and ran and got upon the tower which was near the temple.

2020, January 31

Book of Mormon | “War: Submission through Surrendering Weapons of War and Covenanting Peace; Alma 24 and Alma 44” by grego

Book of Mormon | “War: Submission through Surrendering Weapons of War and Covenanting Peace; Alma 24 and Alma 44” by grego
2020 (c) grego

The Nephite forces have surrounded the Lamanites. Moroni offers mercy:

Alma 44:6 Yea, and this is not all; I command you by all the desires which ye have for life, that ye deliver up your weapons of war unto us, and we will seek not your blood, but we will spare your lives, if ye will go your way and come not again to war against us.

8 And now it came to pass that when Zerahemnah had heard these sayings he came forth and delivered up his sword and his cimeter, and his bow into the hands of Moroni, and said unto him: Behold, here are our weapons of war; we will deliver them up unto you, but we will not suffer ourselves to take an oath unto you, which we know that we shall break, and also our children; but take our weapons of war, and suffer that we may depart into the wilderness; otherwise we will retain our swords, and we will perish or conquer.

Moroni says,
11 Now I cannot recall the words which I have spoken, therefore as the Lord liveth, ye shall not depart except ye depart with an oath that ye will not return again against us to war. Now as ye are in our hands we will spill your blood upon the ground, or ye shall SUBMIT to the conditions which I have proposed.

15 Now there were many, when they heard these words and saw the scalp which was upon the sword, that were struck with fear; and many came forth and threw down their weapons of war at the feet of Moroni, and entered into a covenant of peace. And as many as entered into a covenant they suffered to depart into the wilderness.

19 Now Zerahemnah, when he saw that they were all about to be destroyed, cried mightily unto Moroni, promising that he would covenant and also his people with them, if they would spare the remainder of their lives, that they never would come to war again against them.

20 And it came to pass that Moroni caused that the work of death should cease again among the people. And he took the weapons of war from the Lamanites; and after they had entered into a covenant with him of peace they were suffered to depart into the wilderness.

Earlier, we see something like this:

Alma 23:7 For they became a righteous people; they did lay down the weapons of their rebellion, that they did not fight against God any more, neither against any of their brethren.

Alma 24:12 Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren.

13 Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins.

14 And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish…

15 Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby.

16 And now, my brethren, if our brethren seek to destroy us, behold, we will hide away our swords, yea, even we will bury them deep in the earth, that they may be kept bright, as a testimony that we have never used them, at the last day; and if our brethren destroy us, behold, we shall go to our God and shall be saved.

17 And now it came to pass that when the king had made an end of these sayings, and all the people were assembled together, they took their swords, and all the weapons which were used for the shedding of man’s blood, and they did bury them up deep in the earth.

It’s also here:

Alma 62:15 And it came to pass that as they were marching towards the land, they took a large body of men of the Lamanites, and slew many of them, and took their provisions and their weapons of war.

16 And it came to pass after they had taken them, they caused them to enter into a covenant that they would no more take up their weapons of war against the Nephites.

17 And when they had entered into this covenant they sent them to dwell with the people of Ammon, and they were in number about four thousand who had not been slain.

There are two parts to Submission: 1) surrendering weapons of war, and 2) covenanting peace with the victor.

Interesting to see more internal consistency in the Book of Mormon.

2020, January 13

“Book of Mormon: Alma 34:26 and ‘Pouring out your soul'” by grego

“Book of Mormon: Alma 34:26 and ‘Pouring out your soul'” by grego
(c) 2020 by grego

If yo want God to really hear you, this is a key:
Alma 34:26 But this is not all; ye must pour out your souls in your closets, and your secret places, and in your wilderness.

How many times, how often, do we pour out our souls in private? How many times have we spent more than a few minutes in prayer? How many times have we prayed for 30 minutes or more? Have you ever prayed until you have nothing left in your heart, you run out of tears, and have no strength left?

If you want to draw closer to God, if you hunger for God’s presence and love, especially if you have been doing your best to obey all the commandments and it’s still not feeling like it’s enough, try this.

2019, September 22

Book of Mormon: “Jared’s Advice to His Brother (the Brother of Jared) in Ether 1 and Ether 6” by grego

Book of Mormon: “Jared’s Advice to His Brother (the Brother of Jared) in Ether 1 and Ether 6” by grego
(c) 2019 grego

In Ether 1, we read of Jared’s advice to his brother three times:

34 And the brother of Jared being a large and mighty man, and a man highly favored of the Lord, Jared, his brother, said unto him: Cry unto the Lord, that he will not confound us that we may not understand our words.
35 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord, and the Lord had compassion upon Jared; therefore he did not confound the language of Jared; and Jared and his brother were not confounded.
36 Then Jared said unto his brother: Cry again unto the Lord, and it may be that he will turn away his anger from them who are our friends, that he confound not their language.
37 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord, and the Lord had compassion upon their friends and their families also, that they were not confounded.
38 And it came to pass that Jared spake again unto his brother, saying: Go and inquire of the Lord whether he will drive us out of the land, and if he will drive us out of the land, cry unto him whither we shall go. And who knoweth but the Lord will carry us forth into a land which is choice above all the earth? And if it so be, let us be faithful unto the Lord, that we may receive it for our inheritance.
39 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord according to that which had been spoken by the mouth of Jared.
40 And it came to pass that the Lord did hear the brother of Jared, and had compassion upon him, and said unto him: [Yes].

All three times, he gave advice; and all three times, he also basically said, “Cry unto the Lord, and ask.” And his brother did.

The result? Many great blessings were obtained for them and others.

In Ether 6, we read his advice to his brother, again:
19 And the brother of Jared began to be old, and saw that he must soon go down to the grave; wherefore he said unto Jared: Let us gather together our people that we may number them, that we may know of them what they will desire of us before we go down to our graves.
20 And accordingly the people were gathered together…
21 … they did desire of them the things which they would that they should do before they went down to their graves.
22 And it came to pass that the people desired of them that they should anoint one of their sons to be a king over them.
23 And now behold, this was grievous unto them. And the brother of Jared said unto them: Surely this thing leadeth into captivity.
24 But Jared said unto his brother: Suffer them that they may have a king. And therefore he said unto them: Choose ye out from among our sons a king, even whom ye will.

What’s the difference? There is still what could have been good advice, at least the first time; but in both instances, “Cry unto the Lord” is missing. And his brother didn’t.

The result? Thousands of years of war and bloodshed.

2019, August 20

“Staying Alive to Fulfill Your Mission in a Murderous World” by grego

“Staying Alive to Fulfill Your Mission in a Murderous World”
(c) 2019 grego

From As I read the story of Naboth (1 Kings 21) back in February, I was reminded of DC 89:
“4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation…”.
The deaths of many prophets, throughout the Book of Mormon, was also in my mind, and the existence and purpose of the secret combination.

I guess if your dying is part of God’s plan, that’s enough. But how does one continue to live to fulfill their mission, in the face of people like Jezebel and people in DC 89?

The principle of the Word of Wisdom promises:
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

Isaiah’s words are great and powerful, and give sustenance for our faith. They have helped me many times.

Captain Moroni (Alma 46-62) and the Nephites (3 Nephi 3) show the need to think ahead, plan, prepare by doing, stay inspired and encouraged, be wary, use righteous trickery, and do our best.

The Nephites (3 Nephi 3) also show the need to pray:
“8 And it came to pass that the armies of the Nephites, when they saw the appearance of the army of Giddianhi, had all fallen to the earth, and did lift their cries to the Lord their God, that he would spare them and deliver them out of the hands of their enemies.
10 …the Nephites did not fear them; but they did fear their God and did supplicate him for protection; therefore, when the armies of Giddianhi did rush upon them they were prepared to meet them; yea, in the strength of the Lord they did receive them.”

Alma, the Three Nephites, and others show that the desire to serve God and do good while we are on this earth are very helpful in receiving his help to stay alive and do so.
As Alma says (Alma 2):
“29 And it came to pass that Alma fought with Amlici with the sword, face to face; and they did contend mightily, one with another.
30 And it came to pass that Alma, being a man of God, being exercised with much faith, cried, saying: O Lord, have mercy and spare my life, that I may be an instrument in thy hands to save and preserve this people.
31 Now when Alma had said these words he contended again with Amlici; and he was strengthened, insomuch that he slew Amlici with the sword.”
The Three Nephites:
“4 And when he had spoken unto them, he turned himself unto the three, and said unto them: What will ye that I should do unto you, when I am gone unto the Father?
5 And they sorrowed in their hearts, for they durst not speak unto him the thing which they desired.
[Jesus promised they will stay on earth to do His work until He comes again.]
9 … and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bring the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand.”

2019, June 14

“Doctrine and Covenants 128 and Doctrine and Covenants 129–A Connection about Detecting Spirits?” by grego

“Doctrine and Covenants 128 and Doctrine and Covenants 129–A Connection about Detecting Spirits?” by grego
grego (c) 2019

DC 128:20 says: And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed. A voice of the Lord in the wilderness of Fayette, Seneca county, declaring the three witnesses to bear record of the book! The voice of Michael on the banks of the Susquehanna, detecting the devil when he appeared as an angel of light! The voice of Peter, James, and John in the wilderness between Harmony, Susquehanna county, and Colesville, Broome county, on the Susquehanna river, declaring themselves as possessing the keys of the kingdom, and of the dispensation of the fulness of times!

This verse is all about angels and spirits: Moroni, Satan, and Peter, James, and John.

DC 129 is all about detecting spirits.

I believe there’s a connection…

Satan appeared and tried to deceive/deceived Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. Michael/Adam appeared, and showed them how to detect an evil spirit, either in the process of detecting the devil, or afterward. Then, Peter, James, and John appeared and ministered to them. Whether Michael or Peter and his group did the actual teaching of DC 129, I don’t know, but I’d guess that Michael taught them, then they were able to use it and confirm Peter, James, and John.

2018, December 31

Book of Mormon, Holy Bible, Doctrine and Covenants | “If God Is Unchangeable, Why Does the Church Change?” by grego

If God Is Unchangeable, Why Does the Church Change?
(c) 2018 by grego

God is unchangeable. We humans are not. Nor are the tools we have. Tools that are mundane, tools that are from God.

Truth and eternal laws are unchangeable in their appointed places. They don’t change, though there are different laws for different places—in other words, our reality is the same, but all reality (“all creation”) is not constant/ the same.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ policy certainly changes. Policy is a way of doing something, or a decision about how to act. It can be very simple, or it can be very “deep”. There was certainly no policy on polygamy before polygamy, and no giving the priesthood to the Blacks before they released themselves from overt bondage and oppression, and the church safe because of that.

Yes, the Church must remain safe, or it will, of course, fail in its purpose and mission. This holy Church never has been, and never will be, in our lives, free from outside and inside evil influences. This is not because the Church is evil, but because of evil people and evil ways.

The words of Jesus Christ: Matt. 22:21: “They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.”
Mark 12:17: “And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.” Luke 20:25: “…Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s.” D&C 63:26: “Nevertheless, I, the Lord, render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s.

I don’t think we realize how much covert rendering some powerful forces require of the Church. What good is it to preach against Satan’s hosts, rile them up so they destroy the Church and the Saints; so that the true purpose and mission of the Church are quickly subdued? When President Hunter was held at bomb-point, it was a personal danger that allowed him to “stand strong against the adversary”; had the church itself been in danger, it might have been different. Matthew 5: 25 “Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.” And in 3 Nephi 12: 25 “Agree with thine adversary quickly while thou art in the way with him, lest at any time he shall get thee, and thou shalt be cast into prison.” Why was polygamy stopped? There’s your answer.

No doubt there will be another future but not-distant point in history, when, as with polygamy in the past, Satan and his will stir up wicked emotions and wickedness and hypocrisy will rage against and ravage the Saints, and the Saints and the Church as we know it will be in danger; but it will hold; and God will save them. Until that time, however, the Church must carefully hold to its purpose the best it can, under circumstances. After the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, the Church will be very free to fulfill its purpose and mission.

Nevertheless, God, knowing all things from the beginning, will use opposing forces against the Church to further His purposes through the Church as much as can be.

As someone said, there are so many wars, you have to carefully choose which ones to fight, and how and when. This includes wars outside and inside the Church.

Our understanding of the truth certainly changes. Doctrine does. Yes, I know that many say doctrine does not change; but if we consider that ‘doctrine’ is “our understanding of truth, as revealed to us”, then of course we understand it changes, because we don’t have all truth revealed to us, nor do we understand it, especially all its context and nuances—and we never will, in this life. When leaders usually say ‘doctrine’, I think they mean ‘truth’. We’ve heard times in Sunday School where someone says something correct, but it’s not complete; someone else then says something that seems like it’s contrary, but in actuality, it’s just complementing the first comment. Even then, the two comments, however true they are, are not complete; we could go down many, many levels to get a more complete truth.

Here’s a great example of how ‘doctrine’ changes: the Spirit World.

In the Book of Mormon, Alma is the first person to talk about the spirit world, and the information he gives is sparse, and a little is personal opinion (Alma 41:9-14). In the Bible, we have a little information from Peter (1 Peter 2:12 “Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.” 1 Peter 4:6 “For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”). From that point on, we have nothing official/ scriptural until Joseph F. Smith’s vision (DC 138). Unofficially, there are many more teachings from other latter-day prophets, particularly Brigham Young. There were also many personal experiences that contributed to our understanding. So, did the truth change between Nephi and now? No. Has our understanding of the truth changed/ increased? Yes. Has doctrine changed? Yes—because new revelation has increased our breadth and depth of the topic.

There have been times when things have been misunderstood—perhaps even intentionally given, knowing they would be misunderstood; waiting until we ask for clarification, to clarify.
For example:
DC 19:6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.
7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.
8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.
9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.
10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—
11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.
12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

Or, here:
3 Nephi 15:21 And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
22 And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching.
23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice—that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.

No doubt there are times when things were misunderstood, and the Lord allowed the mistakes, to some degree or another, to continue—until it was time to correct them.

What else influences the Church’s changes? The members of the Church. The Lord did not reveal to the apostles in Jerusalem the Nephites, nor perform so many open and wonderful miracles. Why? Here are some verses for understanding:

3 Nephi 15:16 This much did the Father command me, that I should tell unto them:
17 That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
18 And now, because of stiffneckedness and unbelief they understood not my word; therefore I was commanded to say no more of the Father concerning this thing unto them.
19 But, verily, I say unto you that the Father hath commanded me, and I tell it unto you, that ye were separated from among them because of their iniquity; therefore it is because of their iniquity that they know not of you.

3 Nephi 17:2 I perceive that ye are weak, that ye cannot understand all my words which I am commanded of the Father to speak unto you at this time.

3 Nephi 19:35 And it came to pass that when Jesus had made an end of praying he came again to the disciples, and said unto them: So great faith have I never seen among all the Jews; wherefore I could not show unto them so great miracles, because of their unbelief.

We see that it’s often up to the faith and righteousness of the members of the Church.

Joseph Smith also commented, “I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all.” When he says “anything new”, I’d say he’s talking about doctrine and policy. So, revelation of doctrine (‘new doctrine’, but not new truth) and policy for the Church also depends on the Saints and their ability to receive it.

If God is unchangeable, why does the Church change? Because until time stands still and circumstances and people remain constant, it’s best for the Church to change.

2018, November 13

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: The New Home Curriculum vs. Screens” by grego

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: “New Curriculum vs. Screens”

grego
(c)2018

Recently, the bishopric was talking about implementing next year’s program. One of the questions asked was, “How do we fit it in when we are already so busy?”

I think it’s time to rethink our lives…

-=-=-=
President Russell M. Nelson, April 2016, “The Price of Priesthood Power”
“I urgently plead with each one of us to live up to our privileges as bearers of the priesthood. In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others. Only a man who has paid the price for priesthood power will be able to bring miracles to those he loves and keep his marriage and family safe, now and throughout eternity.”

-=-=-=
President Nelson has spoken–THREE times!–about social media, news, etc. From April 2018, his first General Conference as prophet (I think we remember the other two, from the Youth fireside and the last General Conference Women’s Session):

President Nelson “Revelation for the Church, Revelation for Our Lives”:
“We live in a world that is complex and increasingly contentious. The constant availability of social media and a 24-hour news cycle bombard us with relentless messages. If we are to have any hope of sifting through the myriad of voices and the philosophies of men that attack truth, we must learn to receive revelation.

Our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, will perform some of His mightiest works between now and when He comes again. We will see miraculous indications that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, preside over this Church in majesty and glory. But in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.

My beloved brothers and sisters, I plead with you to increase your spiritual capacity to receive revelation. Let this Easter Sunday be a defining moment in your life. Choose to do the spiritual work required to enjoy the gift of the Holy Ghost and hear the voice of the Spirit more frequently and more clearly.”

It could be that the biggest block to the Lord’s work in the USA right now (and perhaps elsewhere) is screens.

-=-=-=
How bad is the cell phone problem, especially in Utah? Was this written about any other city (adults, not children!) in the USA?:
‘SLC, you’re killing me:’ ‘Hamilton’ actor blasts audience for cellphone use
By Carter Williams, KSL.com | Posted – Apr 30th, 2018 @ 1:12pm
https://www.ksl.com/article/46311116/slc-youre-killing-me-hamilton-actor-blasts-audience-for-cellphone-use

-=-=-=
We gave talks in church recently. I looked around “from the top”, and saw many on cell phones (even the guy in the front row, right in front of me!). Relatives gave talks recently, saw the same thing. Another ward, looking around, I saw the same thing. Is this the norm for LDS sacrament meetings?

-=-=-=
President Russell M. Nelson, “Opening Remarks”, October 2018 GC:
“The long-standing objective of the Church is to assist all members to increase their faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and in His Atonement, to assist them in making and keeping their covenants with God, and to strengthen and seal their families. In this complex world today, this is not easy. The adversary is increasing his attacks on faith and upon us and our families at an exponential rate. To survive spiritually, we need counterstrategies and proactive plans. Accordingly, we now want to put in place organizational adjustments that will further fortify our members and their families.”

-=-=-=
From almost two years ago:
Children turn Violent as Parents battle ‘Digital Heroin’ addiction
https://nypost.com/2016/12/17/kids-turn-violent-as-parents-battle-digital-heroin-addiction/
“OVER 200 PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES studies correlate excessive screen usage with a whole host of clinical disorders, including addiction. Recent brain-imaging research confirms that glowing screens affect the brain’s frontal cortex — which controls executive functioning, including impulse control — in exactly the same way that drugs like cocaine and heroin do.”

-=-=-=
It also seems like cell phones and screens are the new addiction. Unlike pornography, screen addiction is much more accepted (actually, encouraged), much more easily justified, but just as deadly (“death by a thousand cuts”, and car accidents due to texting and other phone uses are a start). And screens are probably worse than marijuana when it comes to pulling people out of life. Put pornography on screens… you’re getting multiple addictions served up at once. How bad could that be?

-=-=-=
3 Nephi 6:14 And thus there became a great inequality in all the land, insomuch that the church began to be broken up; yea, insomuch that in the thirtieth year the church was broken up in all the land save it were among a few of the Lamanites who were converted unto the true faith; and they would not depart from it, for they were firm, and steadfast, and immovable, willing with all diligence to keep the commandments of the Lord.

-=-=-=
It’s about time that we give up the good, and even some of the better, for the best!! When 50% of the active members leave, where will you, your spouse, and your children be? When some of the very elect are deceived, will you and your family be among them?

It sounds to me that pretty soon (less than a decade?), the big storms will start.

Will we be ready?

That’s what the new curriculum is for.

2018, November 12

“Book of Mormon: How to Have Joy in Others’ Successes” by grego

“Book of Mormon: How to Have Joy in Others’ Successes”

by grego
(c)2018

The more we have the Spirit, the less we will look at someone else accomplishing good and feel sorrow or despair. We shouldn’t wish our grass were as green as we perceive theirs to be. Sometimes we can get to work and make our grass greener, or find out how they’re doing it and give it a try; but other times, we have to accept that God wants us to work on other things, or have a garden, or even a patio, and use it as He intended us to use it.

Alma has the perfect attitude regarding this. At first he says:
Alma 29:1 O that I were an angel, and could have the wish of mine heart, that I might go forth and speak with the trump of God, with a voice to shake the earth, and cry repentance unto every people!
2 Yea, I would declare unto every soul, as with the voice of thunder, repentance and the plan of redemption, that they should repent and come unto our God, that there might not be more sorrow upon all the face of the earth.

But then he says:
3 But behold, I am a man, and do sin in my wish; for I ought to be content with the things which the Lord hath allotted unto me.
4 I ought not to harrow up in my desires, the firm decree of a just God, for I know that he granteth unto men according to their desire, whether it be unto death or unto life; yea, I know that he allotteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable, according to their wills, whether they be unto salvation or unto destruction.
5 Yea, and I know that good and evil have come before all men; he that knoweth not good from evil is blameless; but he that knoweth good and evil, to him it is given according to his desires, whether he desireth good or evil, life or death, joy or remorse of conscience.
6 Now, seeing that I know these things, why should I desire more than to perform the work to which I have been called?
7 Why should I desire that I were an angel, that I could speak unto all the ends of the earth?
8 For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true.
9 I know that which the Lord hath commanded me, and I glory in it. I do not glory of myself, but I glory in that which the Lord hath commanded me; yea, and this is my glory, that perhaps I may be an instrument in the hands of God to bring some soul to repentance; and this is my joy.
10 And behold, when I see many of my brethren truly penitent, and coming to the Lord their God, then is my soul filled with joy; then do I remember what the Lord has done for me, yea, even that he hath heard my prayer; yea, then do I remember his merciful arm which he extended towards me.
11 Yea, and I also remember the captivity of my fathers; for I surely do know that the Lord did deliver them out of bondage, and by this did establish his church; yea, the Lord God, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, did deliver them out of bondage.
12 Yea, I have always remembered the captivity of my fathers; and that same God who delivered them out of the hands of the Egyptians did deliver them out of bondage.
13 Yea, and that same God did establish his church among them; yea, and that same God hath called me by a holy calling, to preach the word unto this people, and hath given me much success, in the which my joy is full.
14 But I do not joy in my own success alone, but my joy is more full because of the success of my brethren, who have been up to the land of Nephi.
15 Behold, they have labored exceedingly, and have brought forth much fruit; and how great shall be their reward!
16 Now, when I think of the success of these my brethren my soul is carried away, even to the separation of it from the body, as it were, so great is my joy.
17 And now may God grant unto these, my brethren, that they may sit down in the kingdom of God; yea, and also all those who are the fruit of their labors that they may go no more out, but that they may praise him forever. And may God grant that it may be done according to my words, even as I have spoken. Amen.

Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it; and if you do, maybe it will interfere with God’s plan for you—and others. This might include your spouse, children, other family, friends, and many more. And if you don’t get what you wished for, you will have wasted resources on trying to accomplish your will instead of God’s.

That does not mean that it’s bad to wish or desire, because we don’t know if maybe there’s space and it will fit well. Sometimes, it might be a matter of timing. Perhaps that was the case with Alma, because we read:
Alma 45:18 And when Alma had done this he departed out of the land of Zarahemla, as if to go into the land of Melek. And it came to pass that he was never heard of more; as to his death or burial we know not of.
19 Behold, this we know, that he was a righteous man; and the saying went abroad in the church that he was taken up by the Spirit, or buried by the hand of the Lord, even as Moses. But behold, the scriptures saith the Lord took Moses unto himself; and we suppose that he has also received Alma in the spirit, unto himself; therefore, for this cause we know nothing concerning his death and burial.

It sounds like he did become an angel.

Concentrate on your current mission, instead of discontentedly dreaming of your future mission—that might or might not be. (My life has greatly improved after I decided not to deal in hypotheticals anymore.)

How is it possible to feel joy in others’ successes and missions?

I think Ammon helps us understand this even further. When he leads his people to the Nephites, he runs into Alma:
Alma 27:17 Now the joy of Ammon was so great even that he was full; yea, he was swallowed up in the joy of his God, even to the exhausting of his strength; and he fell again to the earth.
18 Now was not this exceeding joy? Behold, this is joy which none receiveth save it be the truly penitent and humble seeker of happiness.

Note that if you are truly penitent and humbly seek happiness, you will find joy (and not necessarily happiness?)…

Ammon had spent 14 years among the Lamanites, preaching the gospel. What were the Lamanites like? Alma 17:14 And assuredly it was great, for they had undertaken to preach the word of God to a wild and a hardened and a ferocious people; a people who delighted in murdering the Nephites, and robbing and plundering them; and their hearts were set upon riches, or upon gold and silver, and precious stones; yet they sought to obtain these things by murdering and plundering, that they might not labor for them with their own hands.
They had tried to kill him twice the first short period he was there, and they would have succeeded without God’s intervention! And when God worked miracles through and around him, some thought he was “a monster, who had been sent from the Nephites to torment them” (Alma 19:26). It was hard and difficult work, and many rejected the message he and his group had brought. How was it possible he filled with joy?

Like Alma, he received his calling and gloried in it, and did his best to bring souls and glory to God:
Alma 26:1 And now, these are the words of Ammon to his brethren, which say thus: My brothers and my brethren, behold I say unto you, how great reason have we to rejoice; for could we have supposed when we started from the land of Zarahemla that God would have granted unto us such great blessings?
2 And now, I ask, what great blessings has he bestowed upon us? Can ye tell?
3 Behold, I answer for you; for our brethren, the Lamanites, were in darkness, yea, even in the darkest abyss, but behold, how many of them are brought to behold the marvelous light of God! And this is the blessing which hath been bestowed upon us, that we have been made instruments in the hands of God to bring about this great work.

What was the key to their success? We are clearly told:
26 But behold, my beloved brethren, we came into the wilderness not with the intent to destroy our brethren, but with the intent that perhaps we might save some few of their souls.
27 Now when our hearts were depressed, and we were about to turn back, behold, the Lord comforted us, and said: Go amongst thy brethren, the Lamanites, and bear with patience thine afflictions, and I will give unto you success.
28 And now behold, we have come, and been forth amongst them; and we have been patient in our sufferings, and we have suffered every privation; yea, we have traveled from house to house, relying upon the mercies of the world—not upon the mercies of the world alone but upon the mercies of God.
29 [We labored diligently,] and we have been cast out, and mocked, and spit upon, and smote upon our cheeks; and we have been stoned, and taken and bound with strong cords, and cast into prison; and through the power and wisdom of God we have been delivered again.
30 And we have suffered all manner of afflictions, and all this, that perhaps we might be the means of saving some soul; and we supposed that our joy would be full if perhaps we could be the means of saving some.

When we have that love, you will find joy in the success of people doing good things.

2018, November 11

“’Thus Saith the Lord’–Necessary to Be a Prophet?” by grego

“‘Thus Saith the Lord’–Necessary to Be a Prophet” by grego

(c) 2018 by grego

There are some break-off LDS (at least figuratively speaking) that declare that unless a prophet uses the four words “thus saith the Lord”, he is not really a prophet; and that since Joseph Smith was the last one to use those words, he was the last true prophet; thus, from Brigham Young on down, the keys have been lost and the current LDS prophet, President Nelson, is not truly the (or even a) prophet of God.

So I figured, let’s check this out.

So I searched for what shows up in the LDS scriptures (Bible: Old Testament, Bible: New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price), Joseph Smith sermons/ discourses/ etc., and LDS prophets after him.

Bible: Old Testament: 162 verses/ tight groups of verses
Which prophets?
Moses/Aaron: 8 verses/ tight groups of verses
An unnamed prophet: 1 verse
Joshua: 1 verse
A prophet: 1 verse
A man of God: 1 verse (1 Samuel 2)
Samuel: 2 verses (one quoting Moses)
Nathan: 2 verses/ tight group of verses
Gad: 1 verse
Ahijiah: 1 verse
Shemaiah: 1 verse
A man of God: 1 verse (1 Kings 13:2)
Ahijah: 1 verse (1 Kings 14)
Elijah: 3 verses
A prophet: 1 verse/ tight group of verses (1 Kings 20)
A man of God: 1 verse (1 Kings 20)
A certain man of the sons of the prophets: 1 verse (1 Kings 20)
Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah: 1 verse
Elisha: 4 verses
Elisha, a young man the prophet, Jehu: 1 verse
Isaiah: 2 verses/ tight groups of verses
His servants the prophets: 1 verse/ tight groups of verses (2 Kings 21)
Huldah the prophetess: 1 verse/ tight groups of verses (2 Kings 22)
Jahaziel the son of Zechariah: 1 verse (2 Chronicles 20)
Isaiah: 19 verses/ tight groups of verses
Jeremiah: 46 verses/ tight groups of verses
Ezekiel: 27 verses/ tight groups of verses
Amos: 5 verses/ tight groups of verses
Obadiah: 1 verse/ tight groups of verses
Micah: 2 verses/ tight groups of verses
Nahum: 1 verse/ tight groups of verses
Haggai: 2 verses/ tight groups of verses
Zecheriah: 5 verses/ tight groups of verses
Malachi: 1 verses/ tight groups of verses

Which prophets do NOT?
Adam
Abel
Seth
Enos
Cainan
Mahalaleel
Jared
Enoch
Methuselah
Noah
Shem
Enoch
Melchizedek
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob/Israel
Joseph
and many more.

Bible: New Testament: 0 verses
Which prophets do NOT?
John the Baptist
Jesus
Peter, James, John, Paul, etc.

Pearl of Great Price: 1 verse
Which prophet?
Enoch

Which prophets didn’t?
Adam, Abel, Abraham, Moses

Book of Mormon: 25 verses/ tight groups of verses; 11 that aren’t quoting Old Testament prophets
Which prophets?
Nephi (1 time),
Jacob (3 times in the same sermon),
King Benjamin (1 time),
Abinadi (a few times),
King Mosiah (seems to be quoting a prophet),
an angel,
Alma (seems to be quoting a prophet),
Nephi 3 (2 times; commanded to say it one time; seems to be quoting a prophet the other),
and Samuel the Lamanite.

Which prophets do NOT?
Lehi
King Mosiah
Many prophets
Alma the elder
Captain Moroni
Helaman 1
Helaman 2
Nephi 4
Mormon
Brother of Jared
Ether
All the Jaredite prophets
Moroni

Doctrine and Covenants: 51 verses/ tight groups of verses
Which prophets?
Joseph Smith

So, what does that mean to all the prophets that didn’t say it? Were they not really prophets? Do we throw their scriptures, sayings, and teachings out? What are scriptures?
DC 68: 2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth—
3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.
4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

That is from Joseph Smith, and he is talking not just about the BIG prophets, but about anyone ordained to the priesthood and called to preach.

What does that mean to all the prophets who say it, but only in front of a few things? Does that mean every other separate saying and teaching were NOT from God? Or only the things that came before they ever spoke “thus saith the Lord”?

What about Jesus? He only says the equivalent twice in his visit to the Nephites, and one was a reference to another prophet. Whew! Guess He made it by one verse… ;(

Joseph Smith called many people prophets who didn’t say “thus saith the Lord”–what are we to make of that??

Joseph Smith preached quite a bit without saying, “Thus saith the Lord”.

According to this thinking, the Book of Mormon would be false, because neither Mormon nor Moroni say “thus saith the Lord”.

What about other LDS prophets, after Joseph Smith?
From https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/banner-gospel-wilford-woodruff/5-every-man-given-gift-spiritual-legacy-wilford-woodruff: Woodruff often wrote in his journal such words as “Thus saith the Lord, to my servant Wilford.”[36] He also recorded many personal revelations in his journal, often writing them in the form and language of scripture. However, he did not often [publicly] use that language with the Saints. On October 25, 1891, he wrote:
“Some had thought that revelation had ceased, but this is not the case. The Lord is with us and gives us revelation. But I will say for myself that I wish to avoid saying “Thus saith the Lord” as far as I can when I give the will of the Lord to the people. In the days of Joseph Smith, it was “Thus saith the Lord” almost daily until the revelations now embodied in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants had been given. Since that day President Brigham Young, John Taylor, and myself have seldom used the words (thus saith the Lord) when giving the word of the Lord to the people.”[37]

I hope after all this it is very clear that a prophet does NOT need to say, “Thus saith the Lord” to be a prophet.

(Book of Mormon references
Nephi:
2 Nephi 5:22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

Jacob:
Jacob 2:23, 25, 28
23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
• • •
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
• • •
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

King Benjamin:
Mosiah 3:24 And thus saith the Lord: They shall stand as a bright testimony against this people, at the judgment day; whereof they shall be judged, every man according to his works, whether they be good, or whether they be evil.

Abinadi:
Mosiah 11: 20, 25
20 And it came to pass that there was a man among them whose name was Abinadi; *and he went forth among them, and began to prophesy, saying: Behold, thus saith the Lord, and thus hath he commanded me, saying, Go forth, and say unto this people, thus saith the Lord—Wo be unto this people, for I have seen their abominations, and their wickedness, and their whoredoms; and except they repent I will visit them in mine anger.
• • •
25 And except they repent in sackcloth and ashes, and cry mightily to the Lord their God, I will not hear their prayers, neither will I deliver them out of their afflictions; and thus saith the Lord, and thus hath he commanded me.

Mosiah 12: 2
2 Yea, wo be unto this generation! And the Lord said unto me: Stretch forth thy hand and prophesy, saying: Thus saith the Lord, it shall come to pass that this generation, because of their iniquities, shall be brought into bondage, and shall be smitten on the cheek; yea, and shall be driven by men, and shall be slain; and the vultures of the air, and the dogs, yea, and the wild beasts, shall devour their flesh.

King Mosiah:
Mosiah 23:7 But he said unto them: Behold, it is not expedient that we should have a king; for thus saith the Lord: Ye shall not esteem one flesh above another, or one man shall not think himself above another; therefore I say unto you it is not expedient that ye should have a king.

Angel:
Alma 8:17, 29
17 For behold, they do study at this time that they may destroy the liberty of thy people, (for thus saith the Lord) which is contrary to the statutes, and judgments, and commandments which he has given unto his people.
• • •
29 And the word came to Alma, saying: Go; and also say unto my servant Amulek, go forth and prophesy unto this people, saying—Repent ye, for thus saith the Lord, except ye repent I will visit this people in mine anger; yea, and I will not turn my fierce anger away.

Alma:
Alma 45:16 And he said: Thus saith the Lord God—Cursed shall be the land, yea, this land, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, unto destruction, which do wickedly, when they are fully ripe; and as I have said so shall it be; for this is the cursing and the blessing of God upon the land, for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Nephi 3:
Helaman 7:23 For behold, thus saith the Lord: I will not show unto the wicked of my strength, to one more than the other, save it be unto those who repent of their sins, and hearken unto my words. Now therefore, I would that ye should behold, my brethren, that it shall be better for the Lamanites than for you except ye shall repent.
Helaman 10: 11, 14
11 And now behold, I command you, that ye shall go and declare unto this people, that thus saith the Lord God, who is the Almighty: Except ye repent ye shall be smitten, even unto destruction.
• • •
14 Therefore Nephi did declare unto them the word of the Lord, saying: Except ye repent, thus saith the Lord, ye shall be smitten even unto destruction.

Samuel:
Helaman 13: 8, 11
8 Therefore, thus saith the Lord: Because of the hardness of the hearts of the people of the Nephites, except they repent I will take away my word from them, and I will withdraw my Spirit from them, and I will suffer them no longer, and I will turn the hearts of their brethren against them.
• • •
11 But if ye will repent and return unto the Lord your God I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord; yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but wo unto him that repenteth not.

In His visit to the Nephites, Jesus only says “saith the Father” or equivalent in two verses:
3 Nephi 16:10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
3 Nephi 24:1 And it came to pass that he commanded them that they should write the words which the Father had given unto Malachi, which he should tell unto them. And it came to pass that after they were written he expounded them. And these are the words which he did tell unto them, saying: Thus said the Father unto Malachi—Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom ye seek shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in; behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of Hosts.)

2018, May 8

Book of Mormon | “Repent, or Be Destroyed” by grego

Filed under: Book of Mormon — grego @ 12:30 am
Tags: ,

Book of Mormon | “Repent, or Be Destroyed”
(c) 2018 grego

The Book of Mormon is full of passages about God’s love, mercy, kindness, goodness, and more. In fact, the thesis sentence (last verse of 1 Nephi) is about the saving power of God, both physical and spiritual.

I know God loves me. Wonderfully. It’s amazing to know that, feel that, and be reminded of it.

But that’s often not the message I NEED, though.

Especially when I was young. I couldn’t get or appreciate “God loves you.”

However, here’s what I could understand, and what prompted me: “Repent, or be destroyed.” This is the other side or hand of the saving power of God. The Book of Momron1 starts out that way, it is threaded all the way through, it’s in the climax balancing God’s love, and it’s at the end of both civilizations. It’s big, and it’s real.

Most everyone can understand that.

The Book of Mormon is full of stories and preachings about physical death following wickedness, too. Here are a few:

1 Nephi 1:4 …there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed.

1 Nephi 22:14 And every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed, and that great whore, who hath perverted the right ways of the Lord, yea, that great and abominable church, shall tumble to the dust and great shall be the fall of it.

2 Nephi 6:15 And they that believe not in him shall be destroyed, both by fire, and by tempest, and by earthquakes, and by bloodsheds, and by pestilence, and by famine. And they shall know that the Lord is God, the Holy One of Israel.

2 Nephi 25:14 And behold it shall come to pass that after the Messiah hath risen from the dead, and hath manifested himself unto his people, unto as many as will believe on his name, behold, Jerusalem shall be destroyed again; for wo unto them that fight against God and the people of his church.

2 Nephi 28:17 But behold, if the inhabitants of the earth shall repent of their wickedness and abominations they shall not be destroyed, saith the Lord of Hosts.

Jacob 3:3 But, wo, wo, unto you that are not pure in heart, that are filthy this day before God; for except ye repent the land is cursed for your sakes; and the Lamanites, which are not filthy like unto you, nevertheless they are cursed with a sore cursing, shall scourge you even unto destruction.

Jarom 1:3 Behold, it is expedient that much should be done among this people, because of the hardness of their hearts, and the deafness of their ears, and the blindness of their minds, and the stiffness of their necks; nevertheless, God is exceedingly merciful unto them, and has not as yet swept them off from the face of the land.
10 And it came to pass that the prophets of the Lord did threaten the people of Nephi, according to the word of God, that if they did not keep the commandments, but should fall into transgression, they should be destroyed from off the face of the land.
12 And it came to pass that by so doing they kept them from being destroyed upon the face of the land; for they did prick their hearts with the word, continually stirring them up unto repentance.

Omni 1:5 Behold, it came to pass that *three hundred and twenty years had passed away, and the more wicked part of the Nephites were destroyed.
6 For the Lord would not suffer, after he had led them out of the land of Jerusalem and kept and preserved them from falling into the hands of their enemies, yea, he would not suffer that the words should not be verified, which he spake unto our fathers, saying that: Inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall not prosper in the land.
7 Wherefore, the Lord did visit them in great judgment; nevertheless, he did spare the righteous that they should not perish, but did deliver them out of the hands of their enemies.
22 It also spake a few words concerning his fathers. And his first parents came out from the tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people; and the severity of the Lord fell upon them according to his judgments, which are just; and their bones lay scattered in the land northward.

Mosiah 16:16 And it will come to pass that ye shall be afflicted with all manner of diseases because of your iniquities.
17 Yea, and ye shall be smitten on every hand, and shall be driven and scattered to and fro, even as a wild flock is driven by wild and ferocious beasts.
18 And in that day ye shall be hunted, and ye shall be taken by the hand of your enemies, and then ye shall suffer, as I suffer, the pains of death by fire.

Alma 9:12 Behold, now I say unto you that he commandeth you to repent; and except ye repent, ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. But behold, this is not all—he has commanded you to repent, or he will utterly destroy you from off the face of the earth; yea, he will visit you in his anger, and in his fierce anger he will not turn away.

Alma 9:24 For behold, the promises of the Lord are extended to the Lamanites, but they are not unto you if ye transgress; for has not the Lord expressly promised and firmly decreed, that if ye will rebel against him that ye shall utterly be destroyed from off the face of the earth?

Alma 30:46 And now it came to pass that Alma said unto him: Behold, I am grieved because of the hardness of your heart, yea, that ye will still resist the spirit of the truth, that thy soul may be destroyed.
57 Now the knowledge of what had happened unto Korihor was immediately published throughout all the land; yea, the proclamation was sent forth by the chief judge to all the people in the land, declaring unto those who had believed in the words of Korihor that they must speedily repent, lest the same judgments would come unto them.

Alma 31-34

Alma 36:9 And he said unto me: If thou wilt of thyself be destroyed, seek no more to destroy the church of God.

Alma 37:22 For behold, the Lord saw that his people began to work in darkness, yea, work secret murders and abominations; therefore the Lord said, if they did not repent they should be destroyed from off the face of the earth.
25 I will bring forth out of darkness unto light all their secret works and their abominations; and except they repent I will destroy them from off the face of the earth; and I will bring to light all their secrets and abominations, unto every nation that shall hereafter possess the land.
26 And now, my son, we see that they did not repent; therefore they have been destroyed, and thus far the word of God has been fulfilled; yea, their secret abominations have been brought out of darkness and made known unto us.
27 And now, my son, I command you that ye retain all their oaths, and their covenants, and their agreements in their secret abominations; yea, and all their signs and their wonders ye shall keep from this people, that they know them not, lest peradventure they should fall into darkness also and be destroyed.
28 For behold, there is a curse upon all this land, that destruction shall come upon all those workers of darkness, according to the power of God, when they are fully ripe; therefore I desire that this people might not be destroyed.
31 Yea, and cursed be the land forever and ever unto those workers of darkness and secret combinations, even unto destruction, except they repent before they are fully ripe.

Alma 42:22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

Alma 44:4 Now ye see that this is the true faith of God; yea, ye see that God will support, and keep, and preserve us, so long as we are faithful unto him, and unto our faith, and our religion; and never will the Lord suffer that we shall be destroyed except we should fall into transgression and deny our faith.

Alma 54:6 Behold, I would tell you somewhat concerning the justice of God, and the sword of his almighty wrath, which doth hang over you except ye repent and withdraw your armies into your own lands, or the land of your possessions, which is the land of Nephi.
7 Yea, I would tell you these things if ye were capable of hearkening unto them; yea, I would tell you concerning that awful hell that awaits to receive such murderers as thou and thy brother have been, except ye repent and withdraw your murderous purposes, and return with your armies to your own lands.

Alma 60:24 And now, except ye do repent of that which ye have done, and begin to be up and doing, and send forth food and men unto us, and also unto Helaman, that he may support those parts of our country which he has regained, and that we may also recover the remainder of our possessions in these parts, behold it will be expedient that we contend no more with the Lamanites until we have first cleansed our inward vessel, yea, even the great head of our government.
33 Ye know that ye do transgress the laws of God, and ye do know that ye do trample them under your feet. Behold, the Lord saith unto me: If those whom ye have appointed your governors do not repent of their sins and iniquities, ye shall go up to battle against them.

Helaman 7:17 O repent ye, repent ye! Why will ye die? Turn ye, turn ye unto the Lord your God. Why has he forsaken you?
19 And behold, instead of gathering you, except ye will repent, behold, he shall scatter you forth that ye shall become meat for dogs and wild beasts.
22 And for this cause wo shall come unto you except ye shall repent. For if ye will not repent, behold, this great city, and also all those great cities which are round about, which are in the land of our possession, shall be taken away that ye shall have no place in them; for behold, the Lord will not grant unto you strength, as he has hitherto done, to withstand against your enemies.
23 For behold, thus saith the Lord: I will not show unto the wicked of my strength, to one more than the other, save it be unto those who repent of their sins, and hearken unto my words. Now therefore, I would that ye should behold, my brethren, that it shall be better for the Lamanites than for you except ye shall repent.
24 For behold, they are more righteous than you, for they have not sinned against that great knowledge which ye have received; therefore the Lord will be merciful unto them; yea, he will lengthen out their days and increase their seed, even when thou shalt be utterly destroyed except thou shalt repent.
28 And except ye repent ye shall perish; yea, even your lands shall be taken from you, and ye shall be destroyed from off the face of the earth.

Helaman 10:11 And now behold, I command you, that ye shall go and declare unto this people, that thus saith the Lord God, who is the Almighty: Except ye repent ye shall be smitten, even unto destruction.
12 And behold, now it came to pass that when the Lord had spoken these words unto Nephi, he did stop and did not go unto his own house, but did return unto the multitudes who were scattered about upon the face of the land, and began to declare unto them the word of the Lord which had been spoken unto him, concerning their destruction if they did not repent.
14 Therefore Nephi did declare unto them the word of the Lord, saying: Except ye repent, thus saith the Lord, ye shall be smitten even unto destruction.

Helaman 11:14 O Lord, thou didst hearken unto my words when I said, Let there be a famine, that the pestilence of the sword might cease; and I know that thou wilt, even at this time, hearken unto my words, for thou saidst that: If this people repent I will spare them.

Helaman 13:6 Yea, heavy destruction awaiteth this people, and it surely cometh unto this people, and nothing can save this people save it be repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ…
8 Therefore, thus saith the Lord: Because of the hardness of the hearts of the people of the Nephites, except they repent I will take away my word from them, and I will withdraw my Spirit from them, and I will suffer them no longer, and I will turn the hearts of their brethren against them.
10 Yea, I will visit them in my fierce anger, and there shall be those of the fourth generation who shall live, of your enemies, to behold your utter destruction; and this shall surely come except ye repent, saith the Lord; and those of the fourth generation shall visit your destruction.
11 But if ye will repent and return unto the Lord your God I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord; yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but wo unto him that repenteth not.

3 Nephi 3:15 Yea, he said unto them: As the Lord liveth, except ye repent of all your iniquities, and cry unto the Lord, ye will in nowise be delivered out of the hands of those Gadianton robbers.

3 Nephi 9:2 Wo, wo, wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent; for the devil laugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people; and it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen!

3 Nephi 20:20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles. \

Mormon

Ether 7:23 And also in the reign of Shule there came prophets among the people, who were sent from the Lord, prophesying that the wickedness and idolatry of the people was bringing a curse upon the land, and they should be destroyed if they did not repent.

Ether 9:20 And thus the Lord did pour out his blessings upon this land, which was choice above all other lands; and he commanded that whoso should possess the land should possess it unto the Lord, or they should be destroyed when they were ripened in iniquity; for upon such, saith the Lord: I will pour out the fulness of my wrath.
28 And there came prophets in the land again, crying repentance unto them—that they must prepare the way of the Lord or there should come a curse upon the face of the land; yea, even there should be a great famine, in which they should be destroyed if they did not repent.

Ether 12:3 For he did cry from the morning, even until the going down of the sun, exhorting the people to believe in God unto repentance lest they should be destroyed, saying unto them that by faith all things are fulfilled—

Ether 13:20 And in the second year the word of the Lord came to Ether, that he should go and prophesy unto Coriantumr that, if he would repent, and all his household, the Lord would give unto him his kingdom and spare the people—
21 Otherwise they should be destroyed, and all his household save it were himself. And he should only live to see the fulfilling of the prophecies which had been spoken concerning another people receiving the land for their inheritance; and Coriantumr should receive a burial by them; and every soul should be destroyed save it were Coriantumr.

Moroni

I have been very fortunate in my life, that sometimes I’ll start to make a wrong choice, and something happens like “bad luck” or even closer to the “you might be destroyed” part, and I quickly get back on track.

So, repent, or be destroyed–physically and spiritually.

2018, May 7

Doctrine and Covenants | “Why the Golden Plates and the Urim and Thummim Were Taken Away from Joseph Smith” by grego

I remember the story of asking three times, and God finally relenting. Then the plates and the Urim and Thummim get taken away, and Joseph Smith loses the gift of translation.

But I don’t thing that’s what happened.

This event was the culmination of MANY previous incidents:

DC 3:5 Behold, you have been entrusted with these things, but how strict were your commandments; and remember also the promises which were made to you, if you did not transgress them.
6 And behold, how oft you have transgressed the commandments and the laws of God, and have gone on in the persuasions of men.
7 For, behold, you should not have feared man more than God. Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words—
8 Yet you should have been faithful; and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary; and he would have been with you in every time of trouble.

12 And when thou deliveredst up that which God had given thee sight and power to translate, thou deliveredst up that which was sacred into the hands of a wicked man,
13 Who has set at naught the counsels of God, and has broken the most sacred promises which were made before God, and has depended upon his own judgment and boasted in his own wisdom.
14 And this is the reason that thou hast lost thy privileges for a season—
15 For thou hast suffered the counsel of thy director to be trampled upon from the beginning.

Missionary Work: Planting Seeds

Filed under: Book of Mormon — grego @ 3:55 pm
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Most people see religion as a part of life; I see life and religion together and inseparable.

Life is good for many people. In my experience, this is USUALLY not the situation of the earnest seeker of God. (Of course, that is their decision to make after we invite them, not ours.)

However, it is CERTAIN that in the future, many people will not know where or whom to turn to, not know where to go. You might or might not be there when that happens. So how can you help someone? I think much has to do with planting seeds.

I have seen many times in my life where I was not ready for something I needed the first time around, mostly because I just didn’t understand what it really was and what it could really do for me. It is true that if someone had persisted in explaining to me, I would have understood and had more interest; but at other times, not really. I think many people are the same way when it comes to religion and the gospel of Jesus Christ. Some people need someone to really explain it to them, and some people need time.

You never know when something might happen for someone. On my mission, we were teaching a group of seven friends. I had ranked them as to how I would invite them, with the most likely at the beginning, down on to the least likely. Well, the first six rejected an invitation to be baptized, but hey, I persisted to the end! The last woman had this… kind of weird smile/ look on her face, and didn’t say anything. Ok… Well, a few days later, we got a call from her–she wanted to get baptized. Go figure, huh? The other six? Maybe their time was right, and they rejected a chance. On the other hand, maybe their time wasn’t right, but one day when it is right, they will accept it, and these experiences will have helped prepare them for it.

My mother in law was getting close to passing away. She had little hope for anything good. Over the years, she had been learning about some things in the gospel. There was no way she was going to be baptized in this life. And over the years, we had taught her about death and what happens. We spoke more than once to ask her that when she died and went to the spirit world, and had some reunions, to go to church there, listen to the missionaries, be baptized, and keep going. And we hope she has.

2018, April 15

Scriptures: “‘Touch’; ‘Lay Hands on’= Death” by grego

“Touch, Lay Hands = Death”
(c) 2018 grego

A reader requested some verses about where “the wicked die if they touch the righteous at specific times” in the scriptures.

There are just some things and some times you just don’t touch, including if you are righteous. Scripture verses that talk about this:

Old Testament
Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Genesis 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

Genesis 26:29 That thou wilt do us no hurt, as we have not touched thee, and as we have done unto thee nothing but good, and have sent thee away in peace: thou art now the blessed of the Lord.

Exodus 19: 12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:
13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

Leviticus 7:21 Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man, or any unclean beast, or any abominable unclean thing, and eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which pertain unto the Lord, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Numbers 4:15 And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 16:26 And he spake unto the congregation, saying, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest ye be consumed in all their sins.

Joshua 9:19 But all the princes said unto all the congregation, We have sworn unto them by the Lord God of Israel: now therefore we may not touch them.

1 Samuel 5:10 ¶ Therefore they sent the ark of God to Ekron. And it came to pass, as the ark of God came to Ekron, that the Ekronites cried out, saying, They have brought about the ark of the God of Israel to us, to slay us and our people.
11 So they sent and gathered together all the lords of the Philistines, and said, Send away the ark of the God of Israel, and let it go again to his own place, that it slay us not, and our people: for there was a deadly destruction throughout all the city; the hand of God was very heavy there.

1 Samuel 6:19 ¶ And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

2 Samuel 6:6 ¶ And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
7 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

1 Kings 13:9 For so was it charged me by the word of the Lord, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest.
11 ¶ Now there dwelt an old prophet in Beth-el; and his sons came and told him…
12 And their father said unto them, What way went he?…
13 …So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon,
14 And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am.
15 Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread.
16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:
17 For it was said to me by the word of the Lord, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.
18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the Lord, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.
19 So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
20 ¶ And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the Lord came unto the prophet that brought him back:
21 And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the Lord, and hast not kept the commandment which the Lord thy God commanded thee,
22 But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the Lord did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.
23 ¶ And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.
24 And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.
26 And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the Lord: therefore the Lord hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake unto him.

New Testament
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Book of Mormon
1 Ne. 17:48 And now it came to pass that when I had spoken these words they were angry with me, and were desirous to throw me into the depths of the sea; and as they came forth to lay their hands upon me I spake unto them, saying: In the name of the Almighty God, I command you that ye touch me not, for I am filled with the power of God, even unto the consuming of my flesh; and whoso shall lay his hands upon me shall wither even as a dried reed; and he shall be as naught before the power of God, for God shall smite him.
52 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend against me; neither durst they lay their hands upon me nor touch me with their fingers, even for the space of many days. Now they durst not do this lest they should wither before me, so powerful was the Spirit of God; and thus it had wrought upon them.

2 Nephi 27:21 Touch not the things which are sealed, for I will bring them forth in mine own due time; for I will show unto the children of men that I am able to do mine own work.
22 Wherefore, when thou hast read the words which I have commanded thee, and obtained the witnesses which I have promised unto thee, then shalt thou seal up the book again, and hide it up unto me, that I may preserve the words which thou hast not read, until I shall see fit in mine own wisdom to reveal all things unto the children of men.

Mosiah 13:1 And now when the king had heard these words, he said unto his priests: Away with this fellow, and slay him; for what have we to do with him, for he is mad.
2 And they stood forth and attempted to lay their hands on him; but he withstood them, and said unto them:
3 Touch me not, for God shall smite you if ye lay your hands upon me, for I have not delivered the message which the Lord sent me to deliver; neither have I told you that which ye requested that I should tell; therefore, God will not suffer that I shall be destroyed at this time.
4 But I must fulfil the commandments wherewith God has commanded me; and because I have told you the truth ye are angry with me. And again, because I have spoken the word of God ye have judged me that I am mad.
5 Now it came to pass after Abinadi had spoken these words that the people of king Noah durst not lay their hands on him, for the Spirit of the Lord was upon him; and his face shone with exceeding luster, even as Moses’ did while in the mount of Sinai, while speaking with the Lord.
6 And he spake with power and authority from God; and he continued his words, saying:
7 Ye see that ye have not power to slay me…

Alma 5:57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things;

Alma 9:7 And they stood forth to lay their hands on me; but behold, they did not. And I stood with boldness to declare unto them, yea, I did boldly testify unto them, saying:
32 And also because I said unto them that they were a lost and a fallen people they were angry with me, and sought to lay their hands upon me, that they might cast me into prison.

Alma 22:20 Now the servants had seen the cause of the king’s fall, therefore they durst not lay their hands on Aaron and his brethren; and they pled with the queen saying: Why commandest thou that we should slay these men, when behold one of them is mightier than us all? Therefore we shall fall before them.

Helaman 5:23 And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi were encircled about as if by fire, even insomuch that they durst not lay their hands upon them for fear lest they should be burned. Nevertheless, Nephi and Lehi were not burned; and they were as standing in the midst of fire and were not burned.
25 For they saw that the Lamanites durst not lay their hands upon them; neither durst they come near unto them, but stood as if they were struck dumb with amazement.
26 And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi did stand forth and began to speak unto them, saying: Fear not, for behold, it is God that has shown unto you this marvelous thing, in the which is shown unto you that ye cannot lay your hands on us to slay us.

Helaman 10:14 Therefore Nephi did declare unto them the word of the Lord, saying: Except ye repent, thus saith the Lord, ye shall be smitten even unto destruction.
15 And it came to pass that when Nephi had declared unto them the word, behold, they did still harden their hearts and would not hearken unto his words; therefore they did revile against him, and did seek to lay their hands upon him that they might cast him into prison.
16 But behold, the power of God was with him, and they could not take him to cast him into prison, for he was taken by the Spirit and conveyed away out of the midst of them.

Ether 5:1 And now I, Moroni, have written the words which were commanded me, according to my memory; and I have told you the things which I have sealed up; therefore touch them not in order that ye may translate; for that thing is forbidden you, except by and by it shall be wisdom in God.

Moroni 10:30 And again I would exhort you that ye would come unto Christ, and lay hold upon every good gift, and touch not the evil gift, nor the unclean thing.

Pearl of Great Price
Moses 4:9 But of the fruit of the tree which thou beholdest in the midst of the garden, God hath said—Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

2018, March 1

Book of Mormon | “Mosiah 29: Mosiah the Good King Is a Pre-Existence God Who Serves His People” by grego

Book of Mormon | “Mosiah 29:  Mosiah the Good King Is a Pre-Existence God who Serves His People”

(c) 2018, by grego

Was the war in heaven fought along these lines?  It was a thought I had the other day,  reading this.

No doubt after Satan had said his part, Jesus and his believers, on behalf of Heavenly Father, were spreading the actual truth about what would happen if Satan were to be in charge—what type of leader Satan would turn out to be, the loss of liberty and enjoyment, etc.

On the other hand, Jesus couldn’t “do it all for us” for reasons, too.

What if we had a righteous King, who set righteous laws, but we were free to choose and be responsible for our choices, being equal with all others in this endeavor to establish a new world?

How would we feel about that King?

* * *

Mosiah 29:35 And he also unfolded unto them all the disadvantages they labored under, by having an unrighteous king to rule over them;

30 And I command you … that ye have no king; that if these people commit sins and iniquities they shall be answered upon their own heads.

31 For behold I say unto you, the sins of many people have been caused by the iniquities of their kings; therefore their iniquities are answered upon the heads of their kings.

32 And now I desire that this inequality should be no more in this land, especially among this my people; but I desire that this land be a land of liberty, and every man may enjoy his rights and privileges alike, so long as the Lord sees fit that we may live and inherit the land, yea, even as long as any of our posterity remains upon the face of the land.

36 Yea, all his iniquities and abominations, and all the wars, and contentions, and bloodshed, and the stealing, and the plundering, and the committing of whoredoms, and all manner of iniquities which cannot be enumeratedtelling them that these things ought not to be, that they were expressly repugnant to the commandments of God.

33 And many more things did king Mosiah write unto them, unfolding unto them all the trials and troubles of a righteous king, yea, all the travails of soul for their people, and also all the murmurings of the people to their king; and he explained it all unto them.

34 And he told them that these things ought not to be; but that the burden should come upon all the people, that every man might bear his part.

37 And now it came to pass, after king Mosiah had sent these things forth among the people they were convinced of the truth of his words.

38 Therefore they relinquished their desires for a king, and became exceedingly anxious that every man should have an equal chance throughout all the land; yea, and every man expressed a willingness to answer for his own sins.

39 …; and they were exceedingly rejoiced because of the liberty which had been granted unto them.

40 And they did wax strong in love towards Mosiah; yea, they did esteem him more than any other man; for they did not look upon him as a tyrant who was seeking for gain, yea, for that lucre which doth corrupt the soul; for he had not exacted riches of them, neither had he delighted in the shedding of blood; but he had established peace in the land, and he had granted unto his people that they should be delivered from all manner of bondage; therefore they did esteem him, yea, exceedingly, beyond measure.

2018, February 17

“Book of Mormon: The Importance of Communicating Clearly instead of Assuming and Acting Rashly in the Stories of King Limhi (Mosiah 19-22)” by grego

Book of Mormon:  The Importance of Communicating Clearly instead of Assuming and Acting Rashly in the Stories of Limhi (Mosiah 20)

grego (c) 2018

 

The stories with Limhi show the importance of communicating clearly instead of acting on assumptions.

This first mentioned is the last to happen; it’s when Ammon and his men show up. At first, Limhi is going to kill them; but he decides to hear them out, and luckily for him and his people, they are not the priests of king Noah, but saviors from Zarahemla, whom Limhi had searched for but thought destroyed:

Mosiah 7:7 And behold, they met the king of the people who were in the land of Nephi, and in the land of Shilom; and they were surrounded by the king’s guard, and were taken, and were bound, and were committed to prison.

8 And it came to pass when they had been in prison two days they were again brought before the king, and their bands were loosed; and they stood before the king, and were permitted, or rather commanded, that they should answer the questions which he should ask them.

9 And he said unto them: Behold, I am Limhi…

10 And now, I desire to know the cause whereby ye were so bold as to come near the walls of the city, when I, myself, was with my guards without the gate?

11 And now, for this cause have I suffered that ye should be preserved, that I might inquire of you, or else I should have caused that my guards should have put you to death. Ye are permitted to speak.

12 And now, when Ammon saw that he was permitted to speak, he went forth and bowed himself before the king; and rising again he said: O king, I am very thankful before God this day that I am yet alive, and am permitted to speak; and I will endeavor to speak with boldness;

13 For I am assured that if ye had known me ye would not have suffered that I should have worn these bands. For I am Ammon, and am a descendant of Zarahemla, and have come up out of the land of Zarahemla to inquire concerning our brethren, whom Zeniff brought up out of that land.

14 And now, it came to pass that after Limhi had heard the words of Ammon, he was exceedingly glad, and said: Now, I know of a surety that my brethren who were in the land of Zarahemla are yet alive. And now, I will rejoice; and on the morrow I will cause that my people shall rejoice also.

Mosiah 21:23 And the king having been without the gates of the city with his guard, discovered Ammon and his brethren; and supposing them to be priests of Noah therefore he caused that they should be taken, and bound, and cast into prison. And had they been the priests of Noah he would have caused that they should be put to death.

The second situation is when king Noah commands his men to not go back. I don’t know why, when they had already sworn a blood oath that they were going to:

Mosiah 19:19 Now they had sworn in their hearts that they would return to the land of Nephi, and if their wives and their children were slain, and also those that had tarried with them, that they would seek revenge, and also perish with them.

20 And the king commanded them that they should not return; and they were angry with the king, and caused that he should suffer, even unto death by fire.

Then the same men:

Mosiah 19:21 … they were about to take the priests also and put them to death, and they fled before them.

They could have arrested them, held them, taken them back, waited for the new king to decide; but they figured they’d go ahead and try it, and so the priests ran. That led to many future problems.

Here’s a lifesaver. The Lamanites assume the people of Lehi kidnapped their daughters, which led to many Lamanites being slain:

Mosiah 20:6 And it came to pass that when the Lamanites found that their daughters had been missing, they were angry with the people of Limhi, for they thought it was the people of Limhi.

7 Therefore they sent their armies forth; yea, even the king himself went before his people; and they went up to the land of Nephi to destroy the people of Limhi.

11 And it came to pass that the people of Limhi began to drive the Lamanites before them

The Nephites find the Lamanite king, and want to kill him; but they take him to king Limhi, who wants to ask him questions. By doing so, king Limhi finds out the reason for the attack:

12 And it came to pass that they found the king of the Lamanites…

13 And they took him and bound up his wounds, and brought him before Limhi, and said: Behold, here is the king of the Lamanites; he having received a wound has fallen among their dead, and they have left him; and behold, we have brought him before you; and now let us slay him.

14 But Limhi said unto them: Ye shall not slay him, but bring him hither that I may see him. And they brought him. And Limhi said unto him: What cause have ye to come up to war against my people? Behold, my people have not broken the oath that I made unto you; therefore, why should ye break the oath which ye made unto my people?

15 And now the king said: I have broken the oath because thy people did carry away the daughters of my people; therefore, in my anger I did cause my people to come up to war against thy people.

Had they killed the king, they might not have ever known.

King Limhi searches for the guilty among his people, but Gideon has the truth.

16 And now Limhi had heard nothing concerning this matter; therefore he said: I will search among my people and whosoever has done this thing shall perish. Therefore he caused a search to be made among his people.

17 Now when Gideon had heard these things, he being the king’s captain, he went forth and said unto the king: I pray thee forbear, and do not search this people, and lay not this thing to their charge.

18 For do ye not remember the priests of thy father, whom this people sought to destroy? And are they not in the wilderness? And are not they the ones who have stolen the daughters of the Lamanites?

And it’s a good thing they didn’t kill the king, because even if they had known the reason for the Lamanite attacks, it wouldn’t have been enough; the king can save them:

19 And now, behold, and tell the king of these things, that he may tell his people that they may be pacified towards us; for behold they are already preparing to come against us; and behold also there are but few of us.

20 And behold, they come with their numerous hosts; and except the king doth pacify them towards us we must perish.

22 And now let us pacify the king…let us put a stop to the shedding of so much blood.

23 And now Limhi told the king all the things concerning his father, and the priests that had fled into the wilderness, and attributed the carrying away of their daughters to them.

24 And it came to pass that the king was pacified towards his people; and he said unto them: Let us go forth to meet my people, without arms; and I swear unto you with an oath that my people shall not slay thy people.

The Lamanite king tells his people the truth, and along with other reasons, the Lamanites stop the attack:

25 And it came to pass that they followed the king, and went forth without arms to meet the Lamanites. And it came to pass that they did meet the Lamanites; and the king of the Lamanites did bow himself down before them, and did plead in behalf of the people of Limhi.

26 And when the Lamanites saw the people of Limhi, that they were without arms, they had compassion on them and were pacified towards them, and returned with their king in peace to their own land.

Finally, king Limhi and Ammon want to get the Nephites out; but how? Limhi does something most leaders would never do: he gathers his people, and asks them:

Mosiah 22:1 And now it came to pass that Ammon and king Limhi began to consult with the people how they should deliver themselves out of bondage; and even they did cause that all the people should gather themselves together; and this they did that they might have the voice of the people concerning the matter.

2 And it came to pass that they could find no way to deliver themselves out of bondage, except it were to take their women and children, and their flocks, and their herds, and their tents, and depart into the wilderness; for the Lamanites being so numerous, it was impossible for the people of Limhi to contend with them, thinking to deliver themselves out of bondage by the sword.

3 Now it came to pass that Gideon went forth and stood before the king, and said unto him: Now O king, thou hast hitherto hearkened unto my words many times when we have been contending with our brethren, the Lamanites.

4 And now O king, if thou hast not found me to be an unprofitable servant, or if thou hast hitherto listened to my words in any degree, and they have been of service to thee, even so I desire that thou wouldst listen to my words at this time, and I will be thy servant and deliver this people out of bondage.

5 And the king granted unto him that he might speak. And Gideon said unto him:

6 Behold the back pass, through the back wall, on the back side of the city. The Lamanites, or the guards of the Lamanites, by night are drunken; therefore let us send a proclamation among all this people that they gather together their flocks and herds, that they may drive them into the wilderness by night.

7 And I will go according to thy command and pay the last tribute of wine to the Lamanites, and they will be drunken; and we will pass through the secret pass on the left of their camp when they are drunken and asleep.

8 Thus we will depart with our women and our children, our flocks, and our herds into the wilderness; and we will travel around the land of Shilom.

9 And it came to pass that the king hearkened unto the words of Gideon.

That’s a LOT of communication situations with good and bad consequences!

2017, September 28

“Book of Mormon: Names–They Did It Also” by grego

“Book of Mormon: Names–They Did It Also” by grego
(c) 2017 grego

3 Nephi 19:4 And it came to pass that on the morrow, when the multitude was gathered together, behold, Nephi and his brother whom he had raised from the dead, whose name was Timothy, and also his son, whose name was Jonas, and also Mathoni, and Mathonihah, his brother, and Kumen, and Kumenonhi, and Jeremiah, and Shemnon, and Jonas, and Zedekiah, and Isaiah—now these were the names of the disciples whom Jesus had chosen—and it came to pass that they went forth and stood in the midst of the multitude.

Nephi
Timothy
Jonas, Jonas
Mathoni
Mathonihah
Kumen
Kumenonhi
Jeremiah
Shemnon
Zedekiah
Isaiah

When I used to read names of modern people like Moroni, Mormon, Ammon, etc., I thought it a little weird. Well, looks like it’s been happening for a long, long time. Nephi, Jonas (Jonah), Jeremiah, Zedekiah, and Isaiah–all names of famous prophets and a king! And, they were called as apostles, to boot!

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