Book of Mormon Notes– How deep can you dig?

2017, September 28

“Book of Mormon: Names–They Did It Also” by grego

“Book of Mormon: Names–They Did It Also” by grego
(c) 2017 grego

3 Nephi 19:4 And it came to pass that on the morrow, when the multitude was gathered together, behold, Nephi and his brother whom he had raised from the dead, whose name was Timothy, and also his son, whose name was Jonas, and also Mathoni, and Mathonihah, his brother, and Kumen, and Kumenonhi, and Jeremiah, and Shemnon, and Jonas, and Zedekiah, and Isaiah—now these were the names of the disciples whom Jesus had chosen—and it came to pass that they went forth and stood in the midst of the multitude.

Nephi
Timothy
Jonas, Jonas
Mathoni
Mathonihah
Kumen
Kumenonhi
Jeremiah
Shemnon
Zedekiah
Isaiah

When I used to read names of modern people like Moroni, Mormon, Ammon, etc., I thought it a little weird. Well, looks like it’s been happening for a long, long time. Nephi, Jonas (Jonah), Jeremiah, Zedekiah, and Isaiah–all names of famous prophets and a king! And, they were called as apostles, to boot!

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2017, September 27

“Book of Mormon: Lehi, Nephi, and Jacob–Three Promised Witnesses to Jerusalem’s Destruction” by grego

“Book of Mormon: Lehi, Nephi, and Jacob–Three Promised Witnesses to Jerusalem’s Destruction” by grego
(c) 2017 grego

Lehi prophesies of Jerusalem’s coming-soon destruction:
1 Nephi 1:13 And he read, saying: Wo, wo, unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations! Yea, and many things did my father read concerning Jerusalem—that it should be destroyed, and the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon.

The Lord’s promise to them:
1 Nephi 17:14 Yea, and the Lord said also that: After ye have arrived in the promised land, ye shall know that I, the Lord, am God; and that I, the Lord, did deliver you from destruction; yea, that I did bring you out of the land of Jerusalem.

They arrive in the promised land:
1 Nephi 18:23 And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days *we did arrive at the promised land; and we went forth upon the land, and did pitch our tents; and we did call it the promised land.

Nephi seems to know that Jerusalem has been destroyed:
1 Nephi 19:20 For behold, I have workings in the spirit, which doth weary me even that all my joints are weak, for those who are at Jerusalem; for had not the Lord been merciful, to show unto me concerning them, even as he had prophets of old, I should have perished also.

Lehi has seen that Jerusalem is destroyed:
2 Nephi 1:4 For, behold, said he, I have seen a vision, in which I know that Jerusalem is destroyed; and had we remained in Jerusalem we should also have perished.

Jacob sees that Jerusalem is destroyed:
2 Nephi 6:8 And now I, Jacob, would speak somewhat concerning these words. For behold, the Lord has shown me that those who were at Jerusalem, from whence we came, have been slain and carried away captive.

Nephi says the spirit has told him Jerusalem has been destroyed:
2 Nephi 25:10 Wherefore, it hath been told them concerning the destruction which should come upon them, immediately after my father left Jerusalem; nevertheless, they hardened their hearts; and according to my prophecy they have been destroyed, save it be those which are carried away captive into Babylon.
11 And now this I speak because of the spirit which is in me…

Nephi (the third) says the Nephites knew Jerusalem had been destroyed because of the Mulekites:
Helaman 8:20 And behold, also Zenock, and also Ezias, and also Isaiah, and Jeremiah, (Jeremiah being that same prophet who testified of the destruction of Jerusalem) and now we know that Jerusalem was destroyed according to the words of Jeremiah. O then why not the Son of God come, according to his prophecy?
21 And now will you dispute that Jerusalem was destroyed? Will ye say that the sons of Zedekiah were not slain, all except it were Mulek? Yea, and do ye not behold that the seed of Zedekiah are with us, and they were driven out of the land of Jerusalem? But behold, this is not all—

This makes me wonder… Could it be that the daughters of Zedekiah fled with Mulek, also?

2017, September 20

“Book of Mormon: Nephi–‘A Ruler and a Teacher to [His] Brethren’” by grego

“Book of Mormon: Nephi–‘A Ruler and a Teacher to [His] Brethren’” by grego
(c) 2017 grego

2 Nephi 5:18 And it came to pass that they would that I should be their king. But I, Nephi, was desirous that they should have no king; nevertheless, I did for them according to that which was in my power.
19 And behold, the words of the Lord had been fulfilled unto my brethren, which he spake concerning them, that I should be their ruler and their teacher. Wherefore, I had been their ruler and their teacher, according to the commandments of the Lord, until the time they sought to take away my life.

I remember reading this verse (years ago), and thinking, “Really??” Even though I’d seen it after that–since that has stuck in the back of my mind for many years, I figured I’d go through and actually count and record how many times, in the Book of Mormon, it happened. Since it’s apparent that Nephi would be a ruler and a teacher over those that followed him, and because the verse says “until they time they sought to take away my life,” this is talking about his being a ruler and a teacher to Laman and Lemuel. This connects back to:
1 Nephi 2:22 And inasmuch as thou shalt keep my commandments, thou shalt be made a ruler and a teacher over thy brethren.
23 For behold, in that day that they shall rebel against me, I will curse them even with a sore curse,

Here they are.

1:
1 Nephi 2:16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers.
17 And I spake unto Sam, making known unto him the things which the Lord had manifested unto me by his Holy Spirit. And it came to pass that he believed in my words.
18 But, behold, Laman and Lemuel would not hearken unto my words; and being grieved because of the hardness of their hearts I cried unto the Lord for them.

2.
1 Nephi 3:14 But Laman fled out of his presence, and told the things which Laban had done, unto us. And we began to be exceedingly sorrowful, and my brethren were about to return unto my father in the wilderness.
15 But behold I said unto them that: As the Lord liveth, and as we live, we will not go down unto our father in the wilderness until we have accomplished the thing which the Lord hath commanded us.
16 Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of our father’s inheritance, for behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done because of the commandments of the Lord.
17 For he knew that Jerusalem must be destroyed, because of the wickedness of the people.
18 For behold, they have rejected the words of the prophets. Wherefore, if my father should dwell in the land after he hath been commanded to flee out of the land, behold, he would also perish. Wherefore, it must needs be that he flee out of the land.
19 And behold, it is wisdom in God that we should obtain these records, that we may preserve unto our children the language of our fathers;
20 And also that we may preserve unto them the words which have been spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets, which have been delivered unto them by the Spirit and power of God, since the world began, even down unto this present time.
21 And it came to pass that after this manner of language did I persuade my brethren, that they might be faithful in keeping the commandments of God.

3.
1 Nephi 4:1 And it came to pass that I spake unto my brethren, saying: Let us go up again unto Jerusalem, and let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; for behold he is mightier than all the earth, then why not mightier than Laban and his fifty, yea, or even than his tens of thousands?
2 Therefore let us go up; let us be strong like unto Moses; for he truly spake unto the waters of the Red Sea and they divided hither and thither, and our fathers came through, out of captivity, on dry ground, and the armies of Pharaoh did follow and were drowned in the waters of the Red Sea.
3 Now behold ye know that this is true; and ye also know that an angel hath spoken unto you; wherefore can ye doubt? Let us go up; the Lord is able to deliver us, even as our fathers, and to destroy Laban, even as the Egyptians.
4 Now when I had spoken these words, they were yet wroth, and did still continue to murmur; nevertheless they did follow me up until we came without the walls of Jerusalem.

4.
1 Nephi 7:6 And it came to pass that as we journeyed in the wilderness, behold Laman and Lemuel, and two of the daughters of Ishmael, and the two sons of Ishmael and their families, did rebel against us; yea, against me, Nephi, and Sam, and their father, Ishmael, and his wife, and his three other daughters.
7 And it came to pass in the which rebellion, they were desirous to return unto the land of Jerusalem.
8 And now I, Nephi, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, therefore I spake unto them, saying, yea, even unto Laman and unto Lemuel: Behold ye are mine elder brethren, and how is it that ye are so hard in your hearts, and so blind in your minds, that ye have need that I, your younger brother, should speak unto you, yea, and set an example for you?
9 How is it that ye have not hearkened unto the word of the Lord?
10 How is it that ye have forgotten that ye have seen an angel of the Lord?
11 Yea, and how is it that ye have forgotten what great things the Lord hath done for us, in delivering us out of the hands of Laban, and also that we should obtain the record?
12 Yea, and how is it that ye have forgotten that the Lord is able to do all things according to his will, for the children of men, if it so be that they exercise faith in him? Wherefore, let us be faithful to him.
13 And if it so be that we are faithful to him, we shall obtain the land of promise; and ye shall know at some future period that the word of the Lord shall be fulfilled concerning the destruction of Jerusalem; for all things which the Lord hath spoken concerning the destruction of Jerusalem must be fulfilled.
14 For behold, the Spirit of the Lord ceaseth soon to strive with them; for behold, they have rejected the prophets, and Jeremiah have they cast into prison. And they have sought to take away the life of my father, insomuch that they have driven him out of the land.
15 Now behold, I say unto you that if ye will return unto Jerusalem ye shall also perish with them. And now, if ye have choice, go up to the land, and remember the words which I speak unto you, that if ye go ye will also perish; for thus the Spirit of the Lord constraineth me that I should speak.
16 And it came to pass that when I, Nephi, had spoken these words unto my brethren, they were angry with me. And it came to pass that they did lay their hands upon me, for behold, they were exceedingly wroth, and they did bind me with cords, for they sought to take away my life, that they might leave me in the wilderness to be devoured by wild beasts.
17 But it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, according to my faith which is in thee, wilt thou deliver me from the hands of my brethren; yea, even give me strength that I may burst these bands with which I am bound.
18 And it came to pass that when I had said these words, behold, the bands were loosed from off my hands and feet, and I stood before my brethren, and I spake unto them again.
19 And it came to pass that they were angry with me again, and sought to lay hands upon me; but behold, one of the daughters of Ishmael, yea, and also her mother, and one of the sons of Ishmael, did plead with my brethren, insomuch that they did soften their hearts; and they did cease striving to take away my life.
20 And it came to pass that they were sorrowful, because of their wickedness, insomuch that they did bow down before me, and did plead with me that I would forgive them of the thing that they had done against me.
21 And it came to pass that I did frankly forgive them all that they had done, and I did exhort them that they would pray unto the Lord their God for forgiveness. And it came to pass that they did so. And after they had done praying unto the Lord we did again travel on our journey towards the tent of our father.

5.
1 Nephi 15:6 And it came to pass that after I had received strength I spake unto my brethren, desiring to know of them the cause of their disputations.
7 And they said: Behold, we cannot understand the words which our father hath spoken concerning the natural branches of the olive-tree, and also concerning the Gentiles.
8 And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?
9 And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.
10 Behold, I said unto them: How is it that ye do not keep the commandments of the Lord? How is it that ye will perish, because of the hardness of your hearts?
11 Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said?—If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you.
12 Behold, I say unto you, that the house of Israel was compared unto an olive-tree, by the Spirit of the Lord which was in our father; and behold are we not broken off from the house of Israel, and are we not a branch of the house of Israel?
13 And now, the thing which our father meaneth concerning the grafting in of the natural branches through the fulness of the Gentiles, is, that in the latter days, when our seed shall have dwindled in unbelief, yea, for the space of many years, and many generations after the Messiah shall be manifested in body unto the children of men, then shall the fulness of the gospel of the Messiah come unto the Gentiles, and from the Gentiles unto the remnant of our seed—
14 And at that day shall the remnant of our seed know that they are of the house of Israel, and that they are the covenant people of the Lord; and then shall they know and come to the knowledge of their forefathers, and also to the knowledge of the gospel of their Redeemer, which was ministered unto their fathers by him; wherefore, they shall come to the knowledge of their Redeemer and the very points of his doctrine, that they may know how to come unto him and be saved.
15 And then at that day will they not rejoice and give praise unto their everlasting God, their rock and their salvation? Yea, at that day, will they not receive the strength and nourishment from the true vine? Yea, will they not come unto the true fold of God?
16 Behold, I say unto you, Yea; they shall be remembered again among the house of Israel; they shall be grafted in, being a natural branch of the olive-tree, into the true olive-tree.
17 And this is what our father meaneth; and he meaneth that it will not come to pass until after they are scattered by the Gentiles; and he meaneth that it shall come by way of the Gentiles, that the Lord may show his power unto the Gentiles, for the very cause that he shall be rejected of the Jews, or of the house of Israel.
18 Wherefore, our father hath not spoken of our seed alone, but also of all the house of Israel, pointing to the covenant which should be fulfilled in the latter days; which covenant the Lord made to our father Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
19 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, spake much unto them concerning these things; yea, I spake unto them concerning the restoration of the Jews in the latter days.
20 And I did rehearse unto them the words of Isaiah, who spake concerning the restoration of the Jews, or of the house of Israel; and after they were restored they should no more be confounded, neither should they be scattered again. And it came to pass that I did speak many words unto my brethren, that they were pacified and did humble themselves before the Lord.
21 And it came to pass that they did speak unto me again, saying: What meaneth this thing which our father saw in a dream? What meaneth the tree which he saw?
22 And I said unto them: It was a representation of the tree of life.
23 And they said unto me: What meaneth the rod of iron which our father saw, that led to the tree?
24 And I said unto them that it was the word of God; and whoso would hearken unto the word of God, and would hold fast unto it, they would never perish; neither could the temptations and the fiery darts of the adversary overpower them unto blindness, to lead them away to destruction.
25 Wherefore, I, Nephi, did exhort them to give heed unto the word of the Lord; yea, I did exhort them with all the energies of my soul, and with all the faculty which I possessed, that they would give heed to the word of God and remember to keep his commandments always in all things.
26 And they said unto me: What meaneth the river of water which our father saw?
27 And I said unto them that the water which my father saw was filthiness; and so much was his mind swallowed up in other things that he beheld not the filthiness of the water.
28 And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf, which separated the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God.
29 And I said unto them that it was a representation of that awful hell, which the angel said unto me was prepared for the wicked.
30 And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end.
31 And they said unto me: Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation, or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body, or doth it speak of the things which are temporal?
32 And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.
33 Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness they must be cast off also, as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining to righteousness; wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God, to be judged of their works; and if their works have been filthiness they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God; if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also.
34 But behold, I say unto you, the kingdom of God is not filthy, and there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy.
35 And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell of which I have spoken, and the devil is the preparator of it; wherefore the final state of the souls of men is to dwell in the kingdom of God, or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken.
36 Wherefore, the wicked are rejected from the righteous, and also from that tree of life, whose fruit is most precious and most desirable above all other fruits; yea, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of God. And thus I spake unto my brethren. Amen.
16:1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might walk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
5 And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

6.
1 Nephi 17:15 Wherefore, I, Nephi, did strive to keep the commandments of the Lord, and I did exhort my brethren to faithfulness and diligence.

7.
1 Nephi 17:22 And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words; yea, and our brother is like unto him. And after this manner of language did my brethren murmur and complain against us.
23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, spake unto them, saying: Do ye believe that our fathers, who were the children of Israel, would have been led away out of the hands of the Egyptians if they had not hearkened unto the words of the Lord?
24 Yea, do ye suppose that they would have been led out of bondage, if the Lord had not commanded Moses that he should lead them out of bondage?
25 Now ye know that the children of Israel were in bondage; and ye know that they were laden with tasks, which were grievous to be borne; wherefore, ye know that it must needs be a good thing for them, that they should be brought out of bondage.
26 Now ye know that Moses was commanded of the Lord to do that great work; and ye know that by his word the waters of the Red Sea were divided hither and thither, and they passed through on dry ground.
27 But ye know that the Egyptians were drowned in the Red Sea, who were the armies of Pharaoh.
28 And ye also know that they were fed with manna in the wilderness.
29 Yea, and ye also know that Moses, by his word according to the power of God which was in him, smote the rock, and there came forth water, that the children of Israel might quench their thirst.
30 And notwithstanding they being led, the Lord their God, their Redeemer, going before them, leading them by day and giving light unto them by night, and doing all things for them which were expedient for man to receive, they hardened their hearts and blinded their minds, and reviled against Moses and against the true and living God.
31 And it came to pass that according to his word he did destroy them; and according to his word he did lead them; and according to his word he did do all things for them; and there was not any thing done save it were by his word.
32 And after they had crossed the river Jordan he did make them mighty unto the driving out of the children of the land, yea, unto the scattering them to destruction.
33 And now, do ye suppose that the children of this land, who were in the land of promise, who were driven out by our fathers, do ye suppose that they were righteous? Behold, I say unto you, Nay.
34 Do ye suppose that our fathers would have been more choice than they if they had been righteous? I say unto you, Nay.
35 Behold, the Lord esteemeth all flesh in one; he that is righteous is favored of God. But behold, this people had rejected every word of God, and they were ripe in iniquity; and the fulness of the wrath of God was upon them; and the Lord did curse the land against them, and bless it unto our fathers; yea, he did curse it against them unto their destruction, and he did bless it unto our fathers unto their obtaining power over it.
36 Behold, the Lord hath created the earth that it should be inhabited; and he hath created his children that they should possess it.
37 And he raiseth up a righteous nation, and destroyeth the nations of the wicked.
38 And he leadeth away the righteous into precious lands, and the wicked he destroyeth, and curseth the land unto them for their sakes.
39 He ruleth high in the heavens, for it is his throne, and this earth is his footstool.
40 And he loveth those who will have him to be their God. Behold, he loved our fathers, and he covenanted with them, yea, even Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; and he remembered the covenants which he had made; wherefore, he did bring them out of the land of Egypt.
41 And he did straiten them in the wilderness with his rod; for they hardened their hearts, even as ye have; and the Lord straitened them because of their iniquity. He sent fiery flying serpents among them; and after they were bitten he prepared a way that they might be healed; and the labor which they had to perform was to look; and because of the simpleness of the way, or the easiness of it, there were many who perished.
42 And they did harden their hearts from time to time, and they did revile against Moses, and also against God; nevertheless, ye know that they were led forth by his matchless power into the land of promise.
43 And now, after all these things, the time has come that they have become wicked, yea, nearly unto ripeness; and I know not but they are at this day about to be destroyed; for I know that the day must surely come that they must be destroyed, save a few only, who shall be led away into captivity.
44 Wherefore, the Lord commanded my father that he should depart into the wilderness; and the Jews also sought to take away his life; yea, and ye also have sought to take away his life; wherefore, ye are murderers in your hearts and ye are like unto them.
45 Ye are swift to do iniquity but slow to remember the Lord your God. Ye have seen an angel, and he spake unto you; yea, ye have heard his voice from time to time; and he hath spoken unto you in a still small voice, but ye were past feeling, that ye could not feel his words; wherefore, he has spoken unto you like unto the voice of thunder, which did cause the earth to shake as if it were to divide asunder.
46 And ye also know that by the power of his almighty word he can cause the earth that it shall pass away; yea, and ye know that by his word he can cause the rough places to be made smooth, and smooth places shall be broken up. O, then, why is it, that ye can be so hard in your hearts?
47 Behold, my soul is rent with anguish because of you, and my heart is pained; I fear lest ye shall be cast off forever. Behold, I am full of the Spirit of God, insomuch that my frame has no strength.
48 And now it came to pass that when I had spoken these words they were angry with me, and were desirous to throw me into the depths of the sea; and as they came forth to lay their hands upon me I spake unto them, saying: In the name of the Almighty God, I command you that ye touch me not, for I am filled with the power of God, even unto the consuming of my flesh; and whoso shall lay his hands upon me shall wither even as a dried reed; and he shall be as naught before the power of God, for God shall smite him.
49 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto them that they should murmur no more against their father; neither should they withhold their labor from me, for God had commanded me that I should build a ship.
50 And I said unto them: If God had commanded me to do all things I could do them. If he should command me that I should say unto this water, be thou earth, it should be earth; and if I should say it, it would be done.
51 And now, if the Lord has such great power, and has wrought so many miracles among the children of men, how is it that he cannot instruct me, that I should build a ship?
52 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend against me; neither durst they lay their hands upon me nor touch me with their fingers, even for the space of many days. Now they durst not do this lest they should wither before me, so powerful was the Spirit of God; and thus it had wrought upon them.
53 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: Stretch forth thine hand again unto thy brethren, and they shall not wither before thee, but I will shock them, saith the Lord, and this will I do, that they may know that I am the Lord their God.
54 And it came to pass that I stretched forth my hand unto my brethren, and they did not wither before me; but the Lord did shake them, even according to the word which he had spoken.
55 And now, they said: We know of a surety that the Lord is with thee, for we know that it is the power of the Lord that has shaken us. And they fell down before me, and were about to worship me, but I would not suffer them, saying: I am thy brother, yea, even thy younger brother; wherefore, worship the Lord thy God, and honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long in the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee.

8.
1 Nephi 18:9 And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days, behold, my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness, yea, even that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither; yea, they were lifted up unto exceeding rudeness.
10 And I, Nephi, began to fear exceedingly lest the Lord should be angry with us, and smite us because of our iniquity, that we should be swallowed up in the depths of the sea; wherefore, I, Nephi, began to speak to them with much soberness; but behold they were angry with me, saying: We will not that our younger brother shall be a ruler over us.

9.
1 Nephi 19:22 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, did teach my brethren these things; and it came to pass that I did read many things to them, which were engraven upon the plates of brass, that they might know concerning the doings of the Lord in other lands, among people of old.
23 And I did read many things unto them which were written in the books of Moses; but that I might more fully persuade them to believe in the Lord their Redeemer I did read unto them that which was written by the prophet Isaiah; for I did liken all scriptures unto us, that it might be for our profit and learning.
24 Wherefore I spake unto them, saying: Hear ye the words of the prophet, ye who are a remnant of the house of Israel, a branch who have been broken off; hear ye the words of the prophet, which were written unto all the house of Israel, and liken them unto yourselves, that ye may have hope as well as your brethren from whom ye have been broken off; for after this manner has the prophet written.

10.
1 Nephi 22:1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had read these things which were engraven upon the plates of brass, my brethren came unto me and said unto me: What meaneth these things which ye have read? Behold, are they to be understood according to things which are spiritual, which shall come to pass according to the spirit and not the flesh?
2 And I, Nephi, said unto them: Behold they were manifest unto the prophet by the voice of the Spirit; for by the Spirit are all things made known unto the prophets, which shall come upon the children of men according to the flesh.
3 Wherefore, the things of which I have read are things pertaining to things both temporal and spiritual; for it appears that the house of Israel, sooner or later, will be scattered upon all the face of the earth, and also among all nations.
4 And behold, there are many who are already lost from the knowledge of those who are at Jerusalem. Yea, the more part of all the tribes have been led away; and they are scattered to and fro upon the isles of the sea; and whither they are none of us knoweth, save that we know that they have been led away.
5 And since they have been led away, these things have been prophesied concerning them, and also concerning all those who shall hereafter be scattered and be confounded, because of the Holy One of Israel; for against him will they harden their hearts; wherefore, they shall be scattered among all nations and shall be hated of all men.
6 Nevertheless, after they shall be nursed by the Gentiles, and the Lord has lifted up his hand upon the Gentiles and set them up for a standard, and their children have been carried in their arms, and their daughters have been carried upon their shoulders, behold these things of which are spoken are temporal; for thus are the covenants of the Lord with our fathers; and it meaneth us in the days to come, and also all our brethren who are of the house of Israel.
7 And it meaneth that the time cometh that after all the house of Israel have been scattered and confounded, that the Lord God will raise up a mighty nation among the Gentiles, yea, even upon the face of this land; and by them shall our seed be scattered.
8 And after our seed is scattered the Lord God will proceed to do a marvelous work among the Gentiles, which shall be of great worth unto our seed; wherefore, it is likened unto their being nourished by the Gentiles and being carried in their arms and upon their shoulders.
9 And it shall also be of worth unto the Gentiles; and not only unto the Gentiles but unto all the house of Israel, unto the making known of the covenants of the Father of heaven unto Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
10 And I would, my brethren, that ye should know that all the kindreds of the earth cannot be blessed unless he shall make bare his arm in the eyes of the nations.
11 Wherefore, the Lord God will proceed to make bare his arm in the eyes of all the nations, in bringing about his covenants and his gospel unto those who are of the house of Israel.
12 Wherefore, he will bring them again out of captivity, and they shall be gathered together to the lands of their inheritance; and they shall be brought out of obscurity and out of darkness; and they shall know that the Lord is their Savior and their Redeemer, the Mighty One of Israel.
13 And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.
14 And every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed, and that great whore, who hath perverted the right ways of the Lord, yea, that great and abominable church, shall tumble to the dust and great shall be the fall of it.
15 For behold, saith the prophet, the time cometh speedily that Satan shall have no more power over the hearts of the children of men; for the day soon cometh that all the proud and they who do wickedly shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that they must be burned.
16 For the time soon cometh that the fulness of the wrath of God shall be poured out upon all the children of men; for he will not suffer that the wicked shall destroy the righteous.
17 Wherefore, he will preserve the righteous by his power, even if it so be that the fulness of his wrath must come, and the righteous be preserved, even unto the destruction of their enemies by fire. Wherefore, the righteous need not fear; for thus saith the prophet, they shall be saved, even if it so be as by fire.
18 Behold, my brethren, I say unto you, that these things must shortly come; yea, even blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke must come; and it must needs be upon the face of this earth; and it cometh unto men according to the flesh if it so be that they will harden their hearts against the Holy One of Israel.
19 For behold, the righteous shall not perish; for the time surely must come that all they who fight against Zion shall be cut off.
20 And the Lord will surely prepare a way for his people, unto the fulfilling of the words of Moses, which he spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that all those who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people.
21 And now I, Nephi, declare unto you, that this prophet of whom Moses spake was the Holy One of Israel; wherefore, he shall execute judgment in righteousness.
22 And the righteous need not fear, for they are those who shall not be confounded. But it is the kingdom of the devil, which shall be built up among the children of men, which kingdom is established among them which are in the flesh—
23 For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet.
24 And the time cometh speedily that the righteous must be led up as calves of the stall, and the Holy One of Israel must reign in dominion, and might, and power, and great glory.
25 And he gathereth his children from the four quarters of the earth; and he numbereth his sheep, and they know him; and there shall be one fold and one shepherd; and he shall feed his sheep, and in him they shall find pasture.
26 And because of the righteousness of his people, Satan has no power; wherefore, he cannot be loosed for the space of many years; for he hath no power over the hearts of the people, for they dwell in righteousness, and the Holy One of Israel reigneth.
27 And now behold, I, Nephi, say unto you that all these things must come according to the flesh.
28 But, behold, all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people shall dwell safely in the Holy One of Israel if it so be that they will repent.
29 And now I, Nephi, make an end; for I durst not speak further as yet concerning these things.
30 Wherefore, my brethren, I would that ye should consider that the things which have been written upon the plates of brass are true; and they testify that a man must be obedient to the commandments of God.
31 Wherefore, ye need not suppose that I and my father are the only ones that have testified, and also taught them. Wherefore, if ye shall be obedient to the commandments, and endure to the end, ye shall be saved at the last day. And thus it is. Amen.

11.
2 Nephi 4:13 And it came to pass that not many days after his death, Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael were angry with me because of the admonitions of the Lord.
14 For I, Nephi, was constrained to speak unto them, according to his word; for I had spoken many things unto them, and also my father, before his death; many of which sayings are written upon mine other plates; for a more history part are written upon mine other plates.

It’s possible there is more that isn’t recorded, but these 11 examples are enough to show that the word of the Lord had been fulfilled.

2017, September 13

“Book of Mormon: Mosiah 29: How King Mosiah Peacefully and Smoothly Transitions the Nephites from Kings to Judges” by grego

“Book of Mormon: Mosiah 29: How King Mosiah Peacefully and Smoothly Transitions the Nephites from Kings to Judges”
(c)2017 grego

I want to take a look at Mosiah 29 here. Before we start, however, it’s important to set the context with a few previous scriptures:

Mosiah 28:10 Now king Mosiah had no one to confer the kingdom upon, for there was not any of his sons who would accept of the kingdom.
King Mosiah already knew earlier that his sons would not accept the kingdom.

Next… All the records that king Mosiah had recently read all pointed towards one thing–don’t have kings! That includes the brass plates (Saul, David, and many more wicked kings); Zeniffites (Noah); Almaites, and Jaredites (the majority of kings). It is likely he read about king problems in the Nephite plates, too.

Alma speaks both about king Noah (the record of the Zeniffites) and his own people:
Mosiah 23:6 And the people were desirous that Alma should be their king, for he was beloved by his people.
7 But he said unto them: Behold, it is not expedient that we should have a king; for thus saith the Lord: Ye shall not esteem one flesh above another, or one man shall not think himself above another; therefore I say unto you it is not expedient that ye should have a king.
8 Nevertheless, if it were possible that ye could always have just men to be your kings it would be well for you to have a king.
9 But remember the iniquity of king Noah and his priests; and I myself was caught in a snare, and did many things which were abominable in the sight of the Lord, which caused me sore repentance;
10 Nevertheless, after much tribulation, the Lord did hear my cries, and did answer my prayers, and has made me an instrument in his hands in bringing so many of you to a knowledge of his truth.
11 Nevertheless, in this I do not glory, for I am unworthy to glory of myself.
12 And now I say unto you, ye have been oppressed by king Noah, and have been in bondage to him and his priests, and have been brought into iniquity by them; therefore ye were bound with the bands of iniquity.
13 And now as ye have been delivered by the power of God out of these bonds; yea, even out of the hands of king Noah and his people, and also from the bonds of iniquity, even so I desire that ye should stand fast in this liberty wherewith ye have been made free, and that ye trust no man to be a king over you.

It wasn’t just Mosiah that read these things; he had them read to all his people:
Mosiah 25:5 And it came to pass that Mosiah did read, and caused to be read, the records of Zeniff to his people; yea, he read the records of the people of Zeniff, from the time they left the land of Zarahemla until they returned again.
6 And he also read the account of Alma and his brethren, and all their afflictions, from the time they left the land of Zarahemla until the time they returned again.

Mosiah 28:11 Therefore he took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, and also the plates of Nephi, and all the things which he had kept and preserved according to the commandments of God, after having translated and caused to be written the records which were on the plates of gold which had been found by the people of Limhi, which were delivered to him by the hand of Limhi;

17 Now after Mosiah had finished translating these records, behold, it gave an account of the people who were destroyed, from the time that they were destroyed back to the building of the great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people and they were scattered abroad upon the face of all the earth, yea, and even from that time back until the creation of Adam.
18 Now this account did cause the people of Mosiah to mourn exceedingly, yea, they were filled with sorrow; nevertheless it gave them much knowledge, in the which they did rejoice.

These were the plates of the Jaredites (found by king Limhi’s people), which gave account after account of problems with kings and with the succession of kings. They were also known to Mosiah’s people.

Ok, now on to the change.

1 Now when Mosiah had done this he sent out throughout all the land, among all the people, desiring to know their will concerning who should be their king.
2 And it came to pass that the voice of the people came, saying: We are desirous that Aaron thy son should be our king and our ruler.
3 Now Aaron had gone up to the land of Nephi, therefore the king could not confer the kingdom upon him; neither would Aaron take upon him the kingdom; neither were any of the sons of Mosiah willing to take upon them the kingdom.
4 Therefore king Mosiah sent again among the people; yea, even a written word sent he among the people. And these were the words that were written, saying:
5 Behold, O ye my people, or my brethren, for I esteem you as such, I desire that ye should consider the cause which ye are called to consider—for ye are desirous to have a king.
6 Now I declare unto you that he to whom the kingdom doth rightly belong has declined, and will not take upon him the kingdom.
7 And now if there should be another appointed in his stead, behold I fear there would rise contentions among you. And who knoweth but what my son, to whom the kingdom doth belong, should turn to be angry and draw away a part of this people after him, which would cause wars and contentions among you, which would be the cause of shedding much blood and perverting the way of the Lord, yea, and destroy the souls of many people.
8 Now I say unto you let us be wise and consider these things, for we have no right to destroy my son, neither should we have any right to destroy another if he should be appointed in his stead.
9 And if my son should turn again to his pride and vain things he would recall the things which he had said, and claim his right to the kingdom, which would cause him and also this people to commit much sin.
10 And now let us be wise and look forward to these things, and do that which will make for the peace of this people.

I have no doubt that king Mosiah was sure the people would want one of his sons to be king, and as seen, already knew that was not going to happen. I also have no doubt that king Mosiah was 99% or so sure that his sons would not return and want to be king. I believe he had already planned for this, but needed the people to say it themselves so that they could realize it better. He has a solution.

-=
11 Therefore I will be your king the remainder of my days; nevertheless, let us appoint judges, to judge this people according to our law; and we will newly arrange the affairs of this people, for we will appoint wise men to be judges, that will judge this people according to the commandments of God.

I believe this was very likely related to the brass plates, of judges (as with Israel before kings).

-=
12 Now it is better that a man should be judged of God than of man, for the judgments of God are always just, but the judgments of man are not always just.
13 Therefore, if it were possible that you could have just men to be your kings, who would establish the laws of God, and judge this people according to his commandments, yea, if ye could have men for your kings who would do even as my father Benjamin did for this people—I say unto you, if this could always be the case then it would be expedient that ye should always have kings to rule over you.

He might have borrowed that from Alma, at least in thought or as a firmer testimony.

-=
14 And even I myself have labored with all the power and faculties which I have possessed, to teach you the commandments of God, and to establish peace throughout the land, that there should be no wars nor contentions, no stealing, nor plundering, nor murdering, nor any manner of iniquity;
15 And whosoever has committed iniquity, him have I punished according to the crime which he has committed, according to the law which has been given to us by our fathers.

My father didn’t break the law, and I have not broken the law, but have done my best to uphold it. I believe he was setting a psychological precedent for his judges and his people to follow.

-=
16 Now I say unto you, that because all men are not just it is not expedient that ye should have a king or kings to rule over you.
17 For behold, how much iniquity doth one wicked king cause to be committed, yea, and what great destruction!
18 Yea, remember king Noah, his wickedness and his abominations, and also the wickedness and abominations of his people. Behold what great destruction did come upon them; and also because of their iniquities they were brought into bondage.
19 And were it not for the interposition of their all-wise Creator, and this because of their sincere repentance, they must unavoidably remain in bondage until now.
20 But behold, he did deliver them because they did humble themselves before him; and because they cried mightily unto him he did deliver them out of bondage; and thus doth the Lord work with his power in all cases among the children of men, extending the arm of mercy towards them that put their trust in him.
21 And behold, now I say unto you, ye cannot dethrone an iniquitous king save it be through much contention, and the shedding of much blood.
22 For behold, he has his friends in iniquity, and he keepeth his guards about him; and he teareth up the laws of those who have reigned in righteousness before him; and he trampleth under his feet the commandments of God;
23 And he enacteth laws, and sendeth them forth among his people, yea, laws after the manner of his own wickedness; and whosoever doth not obey his laws he causeth to be destroyed; and whosoever doth rebel against him he will send his armies against them to war, and if he can he will destroy them; and thus an unrighteous king doth pervert the ways of all righteousness.
24 And now behold I say unto you, it is not expedient that such abominations should come upon you.

It is important to have some of them remember their own experiences with wicked kings, and for all of them to remember what they had recently heard about king Noah. I think king Mosiah wants to head off the desire for a king/ return to a system of kings, hoping to avoid the problem that Israel suffered under (judges to kings).

-=
25 Therefore, choose you by the voice of this people, judges, that ye may be judged according to the laws which have been given you by our fathers, which are correct, and which were given them by the hand of the Lord.
26 Now it is not common that the voice of the people desireth anything contrary to that which is right; but it is common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right; therefore this shall ye observe and make it your law—to do your business by the voice of the people.
27 And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land.

King Mosiah gives some basic principles here. The judges will judge according to the correct law given by the fathers, which were given by the Lord. If wicked people go against it, and are a minority, they will fail. If wicked people go against it, and are a majority, the judgments of the Lord will be upon them, and they will fail.

-=
28 And now if ye have judges, and they do not judge you according to the law which has been given, ye can cause that they may be judged of a higher judge.
29 If your higher judges do not judge righteous judgments, ye shall cause that a small number of your lower judges should be gathered together, and they shall judge your higher judges, according to the voice of the people.

Is there a way around unrighteous judges? When requested by the people, higher judges, and a very nice point–multiple lower judges can judge a higher judge.

-=
30 And I command you to do these things in the fear of the Lord; and I command you to do these things, and that ye have no king; that if these people commit sins and iniquities they shall be answered upon their own heads.

This is the king’s command, not just a suggestion. Had he started with this, though, maybe things wouldn’t have gone so well. He commands them to be responsible.

-=
31 For behold I say unto you, the sins of many people have been caused by the iniquities of their kings; therefore their iniquities are answered upon the heads of their kings.

Another reminder about wicked kings causing problems.

-=
32 And now I desire that this inequality should be no more in this land, especially among this my people; but I desire that this land be a land of liberty, and every man may enjoy his rights and privileges alike, so long as the Lord sees fit that we may live and inherit the land, yea, even as long as any of our posterity remains upon the face of the land.

The move to liberty, and more (again, Alma helps here). When does this end? This is set up for the rest of Nephite existence.

-=
33 And many more things did king Mosiah write unto them, unfolding unto them all the trials and troubles of a righteous king, yea, all the travails of soul for their people, and also all the murmurings of the people to their king; and he explained it all unto them.
34 And he told them that these things ought not to be; but that the burden should come upon all the people, that every man might bear his part.

A reminder that righteous kings have a very difficult life.

-=
35 And he also unfolded unto them all the disadvantages they labored under, by having an unrighteous king to rule over them;
36 Yea, all his iniquities and abominations, and all the wars, and contentions, and bloodshed, and the stealing, and the plundering, and the committing of whoredoms, and all manner of iniquities which cannot be enumerated—telling them that these things ought not to be, that they were expressly repugnant to the commandments of God.

Another reminder of wicked kings causing problems.

-=
37 And now it came to pass, after king Mosiah had sent these things forth among the people they were convinced of the truth of his words.
38 Therefore they relinquished their desires for a king, and became exceedingly anxious that every man should have an equal chance throughout all the land; yea, and every man expressed a willingness to answer for his own sins.

After all that, he gets the desired result–they don’t want a king, but want judges so that everyone can be equal.

-=
39 Therefore, it came to pass that they assembled themselves together in bodies throughout the land, to cast in their voices concerning who should be their judges, to judge them according to the law which had been given them; and they were exceedingly rejoiced because of the liberty which had been granted unto them.
40 And they did wax strong in love towards Mosiah; yea, they did esteem him more than any other man; for they did not look upon him as a tyrant who was seeking for gain, yea, for that lucre which doth corrupt the soul; for he had not exacted riches of them, neither had he delighted in the shedding of blood; but he had established peace in the land, and he had granted unto his people that they should be delivered from all manner of bondage; therefore they did esteem him, yea, exceedingly, beyond measure.
41 And it came to pass that they did appoint judges to rule over them, or to judge them according to the law; and this they did throughout all the land.

They do not wait! It begins right away.

-=
42 And it came to pass that Alma was appointed to be the first chief judge, he being also the high priest, his father having conferred the office upon him, and having given him the charge concerning all the affairs of the church.
43 And now it came to pass that Alma did walk in the ways of the Lord, and he did keep his commandments, and he did judge righteous judgments; and there was continual peace through the land.
44 And thus *commenced the reign of the judges throughout all the land of Zarahemla, among all the people who were called the Nephites; and Alma was the first and chief judge.
45 And now it came to pass that his father died, being eighty and two years old, having lived to fulfil the commandments of God.
46 And it came to pass that Mosiah died also, in the thirty and third year of his reign, being sixty and three years old; making in the whole, five hundred and nine years from the time Lehi left Jerusalem.
47 And thus ended the reign of the kings over the people of Nephi; and thus ended the days of Alma, who was the founder of their church.

Even though Mosiah remained king, the system of judges went into effect. I believe it was much wiser to start one system under the other; this assured that the judges system would be implemented, be implemented properly, the judges would already have experience, and any problems or situations could be brought to him and he would know what to do. Then, when Mosiah died, the judges were the top.

All together, what a beautiful way to transition!

2017, September 7

“Book of Mormon: Where Will the Repentant Gentiles in America Live?” by grego

Book of Mormon: Where Will the Repentant Gentiles in the Americas Live?
by grego (c)2017

Even though members of the church in the USA are usually from the tribe of Ephraim, I noticed something interesting in the Book of Mormon, and something I’m not sure I understand well:

1 Nephi 14:2
1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.

2 Nephi 10:18-19
18 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, thus saith our God: I will afflict thy seed by the hand of the Gentiles; nevertheless, I will soften the hearts of the Gentiles, that they shall be like unto a father to them; wherefore, the Gentiles shall be blessed and numbered among the house of Israel.
19 Wherefore, I will consecrate this land unto thy seed, and them who shall be numbered among thy seed, forever, for the land of their inheritance; for it is a choice land, saith God unto me, above all other lands, wherefore I will have all men that dwell thereon that they shall worship me, saith God.

It’s my understanding that when peoples are restored to their former lands, at least some of each tribe will return to Israel. Joseph’s sons’ tribes, Ephraim and Manasseh, having high numbers, will have many/ most stay in America, the land of promise, the land of their inheritance.

The Gentiles in America who repent will be numbered among Manasseh and receive this land for an inheritance and live there, too.

2017, July 15

“Book of Mormon: Alma’s Fasting for Ammonihah–When?” by grego

“Book of Mormon: Alma’s Fasting for Ammonihah–When?”
by grego
@2017

Here’s what we read about Alma beginning in Ammonihah:
Alma 8:6 So that when he had finished his work at Melek he departed thence, and traveled three days’ journey on the north of the land of Melek; and he came to a city which was called Ammonihah.

8 And it came to pass that when Alma had come to the city of Ammonihah he began to preach the word of God unto them.
9 Now Satan had gotten great hold upon the hearts of the people of the city of Ammonihah; therefore they would not hearken unto the words of Alma.
10 Nevertheless Alma labored much in the spirit, wrestling with God in mighty prayer, that he would pour out his Spirit upon the people who were in the city; that he would also grant that he might baptize them unto repentance.
11 Nevertheless, they hardened their hearts, saying unto him: Behold, we know that thou art Alma…
13 Now when the people had said this, and withstood all his words, and reviled him, and spit upon him, and caused that he should be cast out of their city, he departed thence and took his journey towards the city which was called Aaron.
14 And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow…

Pretty clear, right? Then we run into this:
Alma 10:7 As I was journeying to see a very near kindred, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto me and said: Amulek, return to thine own house, for thou shalt feed a prophet of the Lord; yea, a holy man, who is a chosen man of God; for he has fasted many days because of the sins of this people, and he is an hungered, and thou shalt receive him into thy house and feed him, and he shall bless thee and thy house; and the blessing of the Lord shall rest upon thee and thy house.

So, when did Alma fast many days?

He might have fasted on the three-day trip. From Alma 8:8, it sounds like he started preaching right when he got there. Alma 8:11 shows they spoke to him and kicked him out, and then he went on his journey–maybe he fasted then; but, why would he fast for the people after it “was done”?

I think the best bet is Alma 8:10, even though it only mentions prayer. But if you are going to wrestle with God in might prayer, chances are good that fasting is involved. I always read that verse like it was one short prayer. Now I see it as a continual prayer, along with that fasting, over the course of a “many days”, or at least a few days; he preaches more, still fasting; he gets kicked out before he gets a meal, and journeys–which together would be “many days”. I also used to read Alma 8:8-11 as one quick continual process, taking one day, at most. Now, in light of Alma 10:7, it seems there is a space of time between Alma 8:8-10, and Alma 8:11, and that’s where the fasting that the angel talks about occurs.

“Book of Mormon: Succession of the Jaredite Kings–Youngest Son Becomes King” by grego

“Book of Mormon: Succession of the Jaredite Kings–Youngest Son Becomes King” by grego
@2017

(I thought I had written this years and years ago, but after coming up empty on searches, here it is.)

Ether 6:19 And the brother of Jared began to be old, and saw that he must soon go down to the grave; wherefore he said unto Jared: Let us gather together our people that we may number them, that we may know of them what they will desire of us before we go down to our graves.

22 And it came to pass that the people desired of them that they should anoint one of their sons to be a king over them.

24 But Jared said unto his brother: Suffer them that they may have a king. And therefore he said unto them: Choose ye out from among our sons a king, even whom ye will.
25 And it came to pass that they chose even the firstborn of the brother of Jared; and his name was Pagag. And it came to pass that he refused and would not be their king. And the people would that his father should constrain him, but his father would not; and he commanded them that they should constrain no man to be their king.
26 And it came to pass that they chose all the brothers of Pagag, and they would not.
27 And it came to pass that neither would the sons of Jared, even all save it were one; and Orihah was anointed to be king over the people.

And this sets the precedent for the rest of Jaredite history–the youngest prince becomes king. Oh, if only Orihah, righteous though he was, could have foreseen the problems!! He could have become king, then changed the form of government. It would have been difficult to choose his oldest son, as that might give the oldest son of Pagag reason to rebel, or some similar problem. Yet he could have created a contest or devised a way to change this.

The older brothers know they will never have power, yet they are generally much more learned and capable than the youngest brother. The people know them, and they know the people. No doubt they are often jealous to some degree (whether they rebel or not).

The First Succession
Ether 7:1 And it came to pass that Orihah did execute judgment upon the land in righteousness all his days, whose days were exceedingly many.
2 And he begat sons and daughters; yea, he begat thirty and one, among whom were twenty and three sons.
3 And it came to pass that he also begat Kib in his old age. And it came to pass that Kib reigned in his stead; and Kib begat Corihor.

The First Old Prince Rebellion
3 And it came to pass that he also begat Kib in his old age. And it came to pass that Kib reigned in his stead; and Kib begat Corihor.
4 And when Corihor was thirty and two years old he rebelled against his father, and went over and dwelt in the land of Nehor; and he begat sons and daughters, and they became exceedingly fair; wherefore Corihor drew away many people after him.

And the successions of the youngest prince, and the rebellions of the oldest (/older prince) versus either his father or his youngest brother, continue for the rest of Jaredite history (as far as applicable).

Ether 9:14 And it came to pass that Omer began to be old; nevertheless, in his old age he begat Emer; and he anointed Emer to be king to reign in his stead.

Ether 9:21 And Emer did execute judgment in righteousness all his days, and he begat many sons and daughters; and he begat Coriantum, and he anointed Coriantum to reign in his stead.

Ether 9:24 …And it came to pass that Coriantum took to wife, in his old age, a young maid, and begat sons and daughters; wherefore he lived until he was an hundred and forty and two years old.
25 And it came to pass that he begat Com, and Com reigned in his stead; and he reigned forty and nine years, and he begat Heth; and he also begat other sons and daughters.
26 And the people had spread again over all the face of the land, and there began again to be an exceedingly great wickedness upon the face of the land, and Heth began to embrace the secret plans again of old, to destroy his father.
27 And it came to pass that he did dethrone his father, for he slew him with his own sword; and he did reign in his stead.

Ether 10:2 And it came to pass that Shez … begat sons and daughters.
3 And his eldest son, whose name was Shez, did rebel against him;

Ether 10:4 … And Shez did live to an exceedingly old age; and he begat Riplakish. And he died, and Riplakish reigned in his stead.

Ether 10:13 And Morianton did live to an exceedingly great age, and then he begat Kim; and Kim did reign in the stead of his father

(Somewhat) Ether 10:14 And his brother did rise up in rebellion against him, by which he did bring him into captivity; and he did remain in captivity all his days; and he begat sons and daughters in captivity, and in his old age he begat Levi; and he died.
15 And it came to pass that Levi did serve in captivity after the death of his father, for the space of forty and two years. And he did make war against the king of the land, by which he did obtain unto himself the kingdom.

Ether 10:16 And after he had obtained unto himself the kingdom he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord; and the people did prosper in the land; and he did live to a good old age, and begat sons and daughters; and he also begat Corom, whom he anointed king in his stead.

Ether 10:29 And it came to pass that Lib did live many years, and begat sons and daughters; and he also begat Hearthom.
30 And it came to pass that Hearthom reigned in the stead of his father
.

(Somewhat–it seems right that this captivity genealogy is “father->last son”, not just one of the descendant lines, and it seems right each king would have had many sons)
Ether 10:30 And it came to pass that Hearthom reigned in the stead of his father. And when Hearthom had reigned twenty and four years, behold, the kingdom was taken away from him. And he served many years in captivity, yea, even all the remainder of his days.
31 And he begat Heth, and Heth lived in captivity all his days. And Heth begat Aaron, and Aaron dwelt in captivity all his days; and he begat Amnigaddah, and Amnigaddah also dwelt in captivity all his days; and he begat Coriantum, and Coriantum dwelt in captivity all his days; and he begat Com.
32 And it came to pass that Com drew away the half of the kingdom. And he reigned over the half of the kingdom forty and two years; and he went to battle against the king, Amgid, and they fought for the space of many years, during which time Com gained power over Amgid, and obtained power over the remainder of the kingdom.

Ether 11:3 And they prophesied unto Com many things; and he was blessed in all the remainder of his days.
4 And he lived to a good old age, and begat Shiblom; and Shiblom reigned in his stead. And the brother of Shiblom rebelled against him, and there began to be an exceedingly great war in all the land.

Ether 11:14 And it came to pass that Ethem did execute judgment in wickedness all his days; and he begat Moron. And it came to pass that Moron did reign in his stead

(Similar to above, a record of fathers->youngest sons. Note Ether was a “captive king”)
Ether 11:18 And it came to pass that he did overthrow Moron and obtain the kingdom; wherefore, Moron dwelt in captivity all the remainder of his days; and he begat Coriantor.
19 And it came to pass that Coriantor dwelt in captivity all his days.
20 And in the days of Coriantor there also came many prophets, and prophesied of great and marvelous things, and cried repentance unto the people, and except they should repent the Lord God would execute judgment against them to their utter destruction;
21 And that the Lord God would send or bring forth another people to possess the land, by his power, after the manner by which he brought their fathers.
22 And they did reject all the words of the prophets, because of their secret society and wicked abominations.
23 And it came to pass that Coriantor begat Ether, and he died, having dwelt in captivity all his days.

At the end, secret combinations take over.

“Book of Mormon: Zemnarihah–The Evil Fruit of the Corrupt Tree?” by grego

Book of Mormon: Zemnarihah–The Evil Fruit of the Corrupt Tree? by grego
@2017

So I was reading this:
3 Nephi 4:28 And their leader, Zemnarihah, was taken and hanged upon a tree, yea, even upon the top thereof until he was dead. And when they had hanged him until he was dead they did fell the tree to the earth, and did cry with a loud voice, saying…

and I wondered about why. Then this came into mind:

3 Nephi 14:16-19:
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Was Zemnarihah, hanged on the tree, a literal fruit? Not down on a branch, just above the ground (no low-hanging fruit!), but “upon the top thereof”. Was that tree which bore evil fruit, a corrupt tree, that was then hewn down?

2016, December 18

“Book of Mormon: Alma (Alma 32:27) Gets the TRUE Counseling Starting Point Question” by grego

I realized that Alma had discovered what I had discovered:

Alma 32:27 “But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.”

Going back to how (25 years ago or so), I remembered hearing the story about the question “Do you believe you and your wife can have a good relationship?” and the answer “No”, then the final answer, “Then I can’t help you.” were wrong.  Lots of honest people will answer, “No.” but that doesn’t mean they and the relationship can’t be helped.  Here is the real question that is important:  “Do you wish that you could believe that you and your wife could have a good relationship?”   If “Yes,”, that’s enough to work with! 

Alma got it first!

2016, June 12

“Book of Mormon: How to Be Humble?” by grego

How to Be Humble?
by grego
(c)2016

The key is in Alma 42:30: … but do you let the JUSTICE of God, and his MERCY, and his LONG-SUFFERING have FULL SWAY in your HEART; and LET IT bring you down to the dust in humility.

2015, January 3

“Book of Mormon: 3 Nephi 1:29 and Involved Parenting to Protect from Wicked Influences” by grego

Book of Mormon: 3 Nephi 1:29 and Involved Parenting to Protect from Wicked Influences

I have been very troubled by this verse for a long time, especially having children:

3 Nephi 1:29 And there was also a cause of much sorrow among the Lamanites; for behold, they had many children who did grow up and began to wax strong in years, that they became for themselves, and were led away by some who were Zoramites, by their lyings and their flattering words, to join those Gadianton robbers.

How did these parents who were powerful and wonderful, let their most precious things be taken away from them and Jesus, and join the most evil organization?

I could be all wrong here… but I wonder if it has to do with this:

When parents are uninformed, uninvolved, and ignorant of evil and wicked influences, they will not be there nor understand the causes, and their children will be led astray and led captive.

If you don’t know AND UNDERSTAND what your children are watching, listening to, and following, you are pretty defenseless to help them. (Coincidentally, last night at a Young Men activity a young man was wearing a pretty hardcore Satan-worship T-shirt. I don’t think anyone else caught it. Even sadder: his MOM had bought it for him, ha ha.) Is that why so many discussions about problems with teens turn into parents getting mad, yelling at, and trying to use authority to coerce children to obey them? A very far cry from what Lehi and Alma show us.

Let your kids watch Disney? Sponge Bob? CSI? Law & Order? Iron Man movies? Listen to pop music? Lots of good themes and things in them, right? AND lots of all kinds of gospel-unfriendly things going on in them and most all the others.

In addition, movies and shows like Walking Dead, first-person shooter video games, etc. are also very harmful. (Though if I had to choose, I’d prefer my children watch Terminator over CSI, for example.)

When children watch something, watch with them. When they listen to something, listen with them. Know what media they are involved with. If you don’t understand what you see or hear, ask them. Research. You would not believe the amount of powerful evil influences in seemingly innocent or “a little bad” on the surface media until you learn how to look and what to look for. Search “+[song} + lyrics” to find out what singers are singing. Search “+illuminati + hollywood”, “+illuminati + music”, etc. for videos, articles, and pictures (media, ha ha) that might be difficult to understand at first, but harder than that, to accept. When you watch the news, you think you’re getting reality. From numerous personal and historical cases, you’re not. Local news might give you 70% reality. What you will read about, it’s probably about 88% REAL.

Watch and learn, so you can protect your children. Use the Spirit to help you know what you need to know, and how.

Then, don’t be afraid to talk to your children about their media choices, even if you ban things first. They need to know that you know, and what you’re doing it for. Don’t stop there. Help them find suitable replacements that they enjoy! You and your child are core elements of a team.

2013, August 20

Pearl of Great Price: “God Delivered Abraham ‘From the Gods of Elkenah’ (Abraham 2:13)” by grego

Pearl of Great Price: God Delivered Abraham “From the Gods of Elkenah” (Abraham 2:13)

grego
(c)2013

Abraham says something I thought very interesting:
13 Thou didst send thine angel to deliver me from the gods of Elkenah, and I will do well to hearken unto thy voice, therefore let thy servant rise up and depart in peace.

Abraham does not say “from the priest of the false non-existent god of Elkenah” or such.

I guess the “pantheon of gods” idea might have a little support here…

“Pearl of Great Price: Abraham 2:13–Experiences Bring Testimony and Help Future Faith and Action” by grego

Pearl of Great Price: Abraham 2:13–Experiences Bring Testimony and Help Future Faith and Action

grego
(c)2013

God appears to Abraham, and says go to a strange land. He reminds Abraham of his power; that he knows the end from the beginning; that he is in His hand; and that He will bless him and his posterity and all nations through him–if he will obey:

Abraham 2:6 But I, Abraham, and Lot, my brother’s son, prayed unto the Lord, and the Lord appeared unto me, and said unto me: Arise, and take Lot with thee; for I have purposed to take thee away out of Haran, and to make of thee a minister to bear my name in a strange land which I will give unto thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession, when they hearken to my voice.
7 For I am the Lord thy God; I dwell in heaven; the earth is my footstool; I stretch my hand over the sea, and it obeys my voice; I cause the wind and the fire to be my chariot; I say to the mountains—Depart hence—and behold, they are taken away by a whirlwind, in an instant, suddenly.
8 My name is Jehovah, and I know the end from the beginning; therefore my hand shall be over thee.
9 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and Priesthood unto all nations;
10 And I will bless them through thy name; for as many as receive this Gospel shall be called after thy name, and shall be accounted thy seed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their father;
11 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.
12 Now, after the Lord had withdrawn from speaking to me, and withdrawn his face from me, I said in my heart: Thy servant has sought thee earnestly; now I have found thee;
13 Thou didst send thine angel to deliver me from the gods of Elkenah, and I will do well to hearken unto thy voice, therefore let thy servant rise up and depart in peace.
14 So I, Abraham, departed as the Lord had said unto me, and Lot with me; and I, Abraham, was sixty and two years old when I departed out of Haran.

I particularly like this:
13 Thou didst send thine angel to deliver me from the gods of Elkenah, and I will do well to hearken unto thy voice, therefore let thy servant rise up and depart in peace.

Abraham was a clearly saved by God from being sacrificed, and so, why not? This was a testimony that God could save him in the future also, if needed (and which he continued to do).

And what did God tell Abraham at the time He saved him?
15 And as they lifted up their hands upon me, that they might offer me up and take away my life, behold, I lifted up my voice unto the Lord my God, and the Lord hearkened and heard, and he filled me with the vision of the Almighty, and the angel of his presence stood by me, and immediately unloosed my bands;
16 And his voice was unto me: Abraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee, and to take thee away from thy father’s house, and from all thy kinsfolk, into a strange land which thou knowest not of;

18 Behold, I will lead thee by my hand, and I will take thee, to put upon thee my name, even the Priesthood of thy father, and my power shall be over thee.
19 As it was with Noah so shall it be with thee; but through thy ministry my name shall be known in the earth forever, for I am thy God.

2013, July 25

“Book of Mormon | Alma 51: Why Does Liberty-Loving Captain Moroni Compel and Kill Nephite People who Resist Him?” by grego

Book of Mormon | Alma 51: Why Does Liberty-Loving Captain Moroni Compel and Kill Nephite People who Resist Him?

grego
(c)2011-2013

Some might believe that Captain Moroni wasn’t righteous because he compelled Nephites to do as he wished or die. Surely he could have come up with a more peaceful way to take care of this problem, that didn’t infringe on people’s rights or freedom?

As one put it:

**
“Captain Moroni executed king-men for not taking up arms against the enemy. Was that not compulsion? Must the Nephites have resorted to a hawkish defense policy for preservation against the Lamanites? Couldn’t they have employed a more dovish policy and still maintained peaceful relations?”

“In regards to compulsion of the state, particularly in regards to taking up arms to “defend the country,” there’s no better example of this than in Alma chapter 51. Let’s read this account, shall we? First of all, it begins with a debate between two opposing political parties. On the one hand are those who were labeled “kingmen” and on the other those who were labeled “free men.” Not sure who did the labeling. In verse 5, Mormon writes that those who wanted to alter the law “were called kingmen.” Who did the labeling is a mystery, but my guess, based on history being written by the victors, this label was given by the “freemen” who, in verse six, is written that they took the name upon themselves. In any case, these first few verses are quite fascinating because while contentious, the two sides put it up for some vote (not sure what the voting population was—probably just the men). In the end, the “free men” won, and the “kingmen” lost. They were sad, but they didn’t take up arms against the “free men.”
But here’s where it gets interesting. Amalickiah, now ruling over the Lamanites, pressed his advantage in the war. Pahoran wanted to get more soldiers for the battle. The “king men” refused to fight. Surely one has a right under “voluntarism” to not pick up a sword or a bow and arrow to kill another, right? Isn’t that what you two believe? Or are there instances where voluntarism is void and null? In any case, they refuse to take up arms.

Let’s see what happened:
Alma 51:13 And it came to pass that when the men who were called king-men had heard that the Lamanites were coming down to battle against them, they were glad in their hearts; and they refused to take up arms, for they were so wroth with the chief judge, and also with the people of liberty, that they would not take up arms to defend their country.
14 And it came to pass that when Moroni saw this, and also saw that the Lamanites were coming into the borders of the land, he was exceedingly wroth because of the stubbornness of those people whom he had labored with so much diligence to preserve; yea, he was exceedingly wroth; his soul was filled with anger against them.
15 And it came to pass that he sent a petition, with the voice of the people, unto the governor of the land, desiring that he should read it, and give him (Moroni) power to compel those dissenters to defend their country or to put them to death.

WOW! I gotta say…Imagine today General Patraeus coming out and writing a letter to the president asking him for permission to compel dissenters to defend their country or to put them to death. WOW! Do you two get it yet? A vote was put up before the people and in apparently a free and fair vote, the “kingmen” lost. They didn’t take up arms against the “free men” nor did they take up arms to defend the “free men.” So what do the “free men” do?

And it came to pass that it was granted according to the voice of the people.
17 And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.
18 And it came to pass that the armies did march forth against them; and they did pull down their pride and their nobility, insomuch that as they did lift their weapons of war to fight against the men of Moroni they were hewn down and leveled to the earth.
19 And it came to pass that there were four thousand of those dissenters who were hewn down by the sword; and those of their leaders who were not slain in battle were taken and cast into prison, for there was no time for their trials at this period.
20 And the remainder of those dissenters, rather than be smitten down to the earth by the sword, yielded to the standard of liberty, and were compelled to hoist the title of liberty upon their towers, and in their cities, and to take up arms in defence of their country.
21 And thus Moroni put an end to those king-men, that there were not any known by the appellation of king-men; and thus he put an end to the stubbornness and the pride of those people who professed the blood of nobility; but they were brought down to humble themselves like unto their brethren, and to fight valiantly for their freedom from bondage.

WOW! Compelled to hoist the title of liberty. Methinks at this point the whole notion of liberty failed. You’re only free when you are compelled by someone, according to Captain Moroni. Oh, if only indeed everyone were like this man…”
**

First, one needs to understand the Nephite social contract, as explained here: https://bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/book-of-mormon-korihor-vs-the-nephite-social-contract-the-law-of-war/ .

Liberty, freedom, and Nephite government is not all about “do what you want, even if it infringes on others’ liberty and rights to do what they want”.

Captain Moroni and Mormon explain many times what it is they’re fighting for, as in this article: https://bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/book-of-mormon-whats-worth-fighting-and-dying-for/

Not long before the situation in Alma 51, there is the Amalickiah situation–an attack on Nephite liberty; a desire for a king; they are angry with the Christians and want to kill them; their numbers are less than the free men; they run away:
Alma 46:4 And Amalickiah was desirous to be a king; and those people who were wroth were also desirous that he should be their king; and they were the greater part of them the lower judges of the land, and they were seeking for power.
5 And they had been led by the flatteries of Amalickiah, that if they would support him and establish him to be their king that he would make them rulers over the people.
6 Thus they were led away by Amalickiah to dissensions, notwithstanding the preaching of Helaman and his brethren, yea, notwithstanding their exceedingly great care over the church, for they were high priests over the church.
10 Yea, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to destroy the church of God, and to destroy the foundation of liberty which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the righteous’ sake.

Most of Amalckiah’s followers are captured, and the ones that covenant to support freedom can live:
Alma 46:33 And it came to pass that Amalickiah fled with a small number of his men, and the remainder were delivered up into the hands of Moroni and were taken back into the land of Zarahemla.
34 Now, Moroni being a man who was appointed by the chief judges and the voice of the people, therefore he had power according to his will with the armies of the Nephites, to establish and to exercise authority over them.
35 And it came to pass that whomsoever of the Amalickiahites that would not enter into a covenant to support the cause of freedom, that they might maintain a free government, he caused to be put to death; and there were but few who denied the covenant of freedom.
36 And it came to pass also, that he caused the title of liberty to be hoisted upon every tower which was in all the land, which was possessed by the Nephites; and thus Moroni planted the standard of liberty among the Nephites.

Harsh? Sure seems that way. Necessary? Sure seems that way.

Who are the king-men in Alma 51? What do they want?

Alma 51:5 And it came to pass that those who were desirous that Pahoran should be dethroned from the judgment-seat were called king-men, for they were desirous that the law should be altered in a manner to overthrow the free government and to establish a king over the land.

8 Now those who were in favor of kings were those of high birth, and they sought to be kings; and they were supported by those who sought power and authority over the people.
13 And it came to pass that when the men who were called king-men had heard that the Lamanites were coming down to battle against them, they were glad in their hearts; and they refused to take up arms, for they were so wroth with the chief judge, and also with the people of liberty, that they would not take up arms to defend their country.
14 And it came to pass that when Moroni saw this, and also saw that the Lamanites were coming into the borders of the land, he was exceedingly wroth because of the stubbornness of those people whom he had labored with so much diligence to preserve; yea, he was exceedingly wroth; his soul was filled with anger against them.
15 And it came to pass that he sent a petition, with the voice of the people, unto the governor of the land, desiring that he should read it, and give him (Moroni) power to compel those dissenters to defend their country or to put them to death.
16 For it was his first care to put an end to such contentions and dissensions among the people; for behold, this had been hitherto a cause of all their destruction. And it came to pass that it was granted according to the voice of the people.
17 And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.
18 And it came to pass that the armies did march forth against them; and they did pull down their pride and their nobility, insomuch that as they did lift their weapons of war to fight against the men of Moroni they were hewn down and leveled to the earth.
19 And it came to pass that there were four thousand of those dissenters who were hewn down by the sword; and those of their leaders who were not slain in battle were taken and cast into prison, for there was no time for their trials at this period.
20 And the remainder of those dissenters, rather than be smitten down to the earth by the sword, yielded to the standard of liberty, and were compelled to hoist the title of liberty upon their towers, and in their cities, and to take up arms in defence of their country.
21 And thus Moroni put an end to those king-men, that there were not any known by the appellation of king-men; and thus he put an end to the stubbornness and the pride of those people who professed the blood of nobility; but they were brought down to humble themselves like unto their brethren, and to fight valiantly for their freedom from bondage.
22 Behold, it came to pass that while Moroni was thus breaking down the wars and contentions among his own people, and subjecting them to peace and civilization, and making regulations to prepare for war against the Lamanites, behold, the Lamanites had come into the land of Moroni, which was in the borders by the seashore.

Moroni gives his own perspective on the king-men problem:
Alma 60:16 Yea, had it not been for the war which broke out among ourselves; yea, were it not for these king-men, who caused so much bloodshed among ourselves; yea, at the time we were contending among ourselves, if we had united our strength as we hitherto have done; yea, had it not been for the desire of power and authority which those king-men had over us; had they been true to the cause of our freedom, and united with us, and gone forth against our enemies, instead of taking up their swords against us, which was the cause of so much bloodshed among ourselves; yea, if we had gone forth against them in the strength of the Lord, we should have dispersed our enemies, for it would have been done, according to the fulfilling of his word.
17 But behold, now the Lamanites are coming upon us, taking possession of our lands, and they are murdering our people with the sword, yea, our women and our children, and also carrying them away captive, causing them that they should suffer all manner of afflictions, and this because of the great wickedness of those who are seeking for power and authority, yea, even those king-men.

Pahoran writes about a group of men who are against freedom, set up a king, and fight against the free men and other Nephites fighting for their freedom. This group sounds eerily like the king-men:
Alma 61: 3 But behold, there are those who do joy in your afflictions, yea, insomuch that they have risen up in rebellion against me, and also those of my people who are freemen, yea, and those who have risen up are exceedingly numerous.
4 And it is those who have sought to take away the judgment-seat from me that have been the cause of this great iniquity; for they have used great flattery, and they have led away the hearts of many people, which will be the cause of sore affliction among us; they have withheld our provisions, and have daunted our freemen that they have not come unto you.
5 And behold, they have driven me out before them, and I have fled to the land of Gideon, with as many men as it were possible that I could get.
8 They have got possession of the land, or the city, of Zarahemla; they have appointed a king over them, and he hath written unto the king of the Lamanites, in the which he hath joined an alliance with him; in the which alliance he hath agreed to maintain the city of Zarahemla, which maintenance he supposeth will enable the Lamanites to conquer the remainder of the land, and he shall be placed king over this people when they shall be conquered under the Lamanites.

This is what happens to them:
Alma 62:6 And thus, when Moroni had gathered together whatsoever men he could in all his march…
7 And it came to pass that Moroni and Pahoran went down with their armies into the land of Zarahemla, and went forth against the city, and did meet the men of Pachus, insomuch that they did come to battle.
8 And behold, Pachus was slain and his men were taken prisoners, and Pahoran was restored to his judgment-seat.
9 And the men of Pachus received their trial, according to the law, and also those king-men who had been taken and cast into prison; and they were executed according to the law; yea, those men of Pachus and those king-men, whosoever would not take up arms in the defence of their country, but would fight against it, were put to death.

Amalickiah’s followers, the king-men in Alma 51, and the rebels in Alma 60-61 are all in the same boat: they want a king, they lust after and covet positions of power and authority, and they are willing to use whatever means they can to reach their aims.

The first group was going to use lethal force to get a king, not even bothering to try a vote (unlike the Amlicites); the second group was likely going to wait for the free men to be killed by the Lamanites, then step in and take over; and the third group actually had a rebel king that tried to establish an alliance with the Lamanite king.

So why did Moroni do what he did?
Alma 61:10 And thus it became expedient that this law should be strictly observed for the safety of their country; yea, and whosoever was found denying their freedom was speedily executed according to the law.
11 And thus ended the thirtieth year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi; Moroni and Pahoran having restored peace to the land of Zarahemla, among their own people, having inflicted death upon all those who were not true to the cause of freedom.

Captain Moroni didn’t compel random people to join him, or freedom-loving people who feared war but were willing to help out in other ways, or even freedom-haters who were still willing to uphold the Nephite government; he compelled those he had reason to kill because they had rebelled and used arms against him, or who likely would have. Being a Nephite capable of defending their own land and people from an invading army–not attacking or going to another country in a dubious war–meant that you supported the government. Note that there had been always been Nephite dissenters who had left the Nephites and lived under the Lamanite king–there was that freedom. But for those who had crossed the line, Moroni’s compulsion was a form of mercy. It was giving the king-men a chance to prove their loyalty to their country instead of suffering death for treason, as explained in this article: https://bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/book-of-mormon-an-oath-of-liberty-a-critique-of-the-book-of-mormon-as-support-for-a-moral-obligation-to-fight-for-ones-government-by-grego/ :

“At this point, it is probable that the king-men are not just in a state of dissenting opinion, contention, and dispute, but are dissenters, rebels, opposers of the government in more than word–in a state of open forceful opposition to the government. Every time the word dissenter is used in the Book of Mormon, it is more than just words–there is a physical separation because of a disagreement over law or government. The king-men have chosen to be enemies of the state. They are doing this while still in Nephite land. By doing so, they could be charged with treason and likely executed.

Now, even in this state, Moroni gives them the choice to return in good standing, or suffer the consequences of their choices. Not once do we read in the Book of Mormon of any other Nephite (other than the chief judge) having to take an oath of allegience to the Nephite government. At least for the king-men, taking the oath–after rebelling against the state–allowed them to set aside their penalty and reaffirm their citizenship and rights; refusing to take the oath would just allow the just penalty to be enforced. This oath was to support their form of government, and was a protective set-up so that when Amalickiah and the Lamanites came against the Nepites, they would not be divided on the inside.

If the Amalickiahites had not committed any crime, but had decided to leave the country and go to the Lamanites, this likely would have been fine. However, by being “determined to slay” innocent people, wanting to seek kingship by force, then having the plan to leave the country with a plan to become the Lamanites allies against the Nephites, the king-men are clearly in an illegal situation.

Later, in Alma 62:7, we learn that king-men resisted the lawful Nephite government by the sword, yet the men who were not slain in battle were taken prisoners and received a fair trial. Once more, the opponenets of liberty were required to take an oath. For them, it was not just fight for the defense of the country or die, which would have still been a fair oath, I believe; but: “whosoever would not take up arms in the defence of their country, BUT WOULD FIGHT AGAINST IT, were put to death.” In Alma 62:10, it reads: “And thus it became expedient that this law should be strictly observed for the safety of their country; yea, and whosoever was found denying their freedom was speedily executed according to the law.” “Fighting against the country” and “denying freedom” are different than opposing or refusing to fight in a war, especially in an offensive one in another country.”

2013, July 22

“Book of Mormon Geography: Where Does Captain Moroni’s Prayer Take Place?” by grego

Book of Mormon Geography: Where Does Captain Moroni’s Prayer Take Place?

grego
(c) 2013

Alma 46:16 And therefore, at this time, Moroni prayed that the cause of the Christians, and the freedom of the land might be favored.
17 And it came to pass that when he had poured out his soul to God, he named **all the land which was south of the land Desolation**, yea, and **in fine, all the land, both on the north and on the south—A chosen land, and the land of liberty**.

Anti-New York geographical setting believers use the second starred section to support their claim that America is included because of the “on the north” part.

But does this land of liberty include the land of Desolation and what’s north of it, or not?

The first starred section makes it seem like it means all the lands on the north and on the south, that are south of the land Desolation. If that’s not what that part means, why was it included, as it seems to contradict what they are trying to prove in the second part?

If not, then does this section support that this must have taken place in North America, such as in New York?

“Book of Mormon: ‘Despised Christians’ among the Nephites??” by grego

Book of Mormon: ‘Despised Christians’ among the Nephites??

grego
(c) 2013

Alma 46:18 And he (note: Moroni) said: Surely God shall not suffer that we, who are despised because we take upon us the name of Christ, shall be trodden down and destroyed, until we bring it upon us by our own transgressions.

I didn’t really understand this verse for a long time–why would Nephite believers be despised in Nephite land?? I think it means “despised by Amalickiah and his followers”.

2013, May 26

“Book of Mormon: Why Were the Nephites Destroyed; How Do We Currently Measure Up?” by grego

Book of Mormon: Why Were the Nephites Destroyed; How Do We Currently Measure Up?

grego
(c) 2013

I’ve compiled a lot of verses for your study that concern the destruction of the Nephites. Hopefully these will help us as individuals, families, communities, and countries to see where we stand before the Lord.

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1 Nephi 12:18 And the large and spacious building, which thy father saw, is vain imaginations and the pride of the children of men. And a great and a terrible gulf divideth them; yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and the Messiah who is the Lamb of God, of whom the Holy Ghost beareth record, from the beginning of the world until this time, and from this time henceforth and forever.

1 Nephi 12:19 And while the angel spake these words, I beheld and saw that the seed of my brethren did contend against my seed, according to the word of the angel; and \\because of the pride of my seed, and the temptations of the devil, I beheld that the seed of my brethren did overpower the people of my seed.//

-=
2 Nephi 26:9 But the Son of righteousness shall appear unto them; and he shall heal them, and they shall have peace with him, until three generations shall have passed away, and many of the fourth generation shall have passed away in righteousness.

2 Nephi 26:10 And when these things have passed away a speedy destruction cometh unto my people; for, notwithstanding the pains of my soul, I have seen it; wherefore, I know that it shall come to pass; and \\they sell themselves for naught; for, for the reward of their pride and their foolishness they shall reap destruction; for because they yield unto the devil and choose works of darkness rather than light, therefore they must go down to hell.//

2 Nephi 26:11 For the Spirit of the Lord will not always strive with man. And \\when the Spirit ceaseth to strive with man then cometh speedy destruction,// and this grieveth my soul.

-=
(This deals with the inhabitants of Ammonihah:) Alma 9:18 But behold, I say unto you that \\if ye persist in your wickedness that your days shall not be prolonged in the land, for the Lamanites shall be sent upon you;// and \\if ye repent not they shall come in a time when you know not, and ye shall be visited with utter destruction;// and it shall be according to the fierce anger of the Lord.)

Alma 9:19 For he will not suffer you that ye shall live in your iniquities, to destroy his people. I say unto you, Nay; \\he would rather suffer that the Lamanites might destroy all his people who are called the people of Nephi, if it were possible that they could fall into sins and transgressions, after having had so much light and so much knowledge given unto them of the Lord their God;//

Alma 9:20 Yea, after having been such a highly favored people of the Lord; yea, after having been favored above every other nation, kindred, tongue, or people; after having had all things made known unto them, according to their desires, and their faith, and prayers, of that which has been, and which is, and which is to come;

Alma 9:21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;

Alma 9:22 Yea, and after having been delivered of God out of the land of Jerusalem, by the hand of the Lord; having been saved from famine, and from sickness, and all manner of diseases of every kind; and they having waxed strong in battle, that they might not be destroyed; having been brought out of bondage time after time, and having been kept and preserved until now; and they have been prospered until they are rich in all manner of things–

Alma 9:23 And now behold I say unto you, that \\if this people, who have received so many blessings from the hand of the Lord, should transgress contrary to the light and knowledge which they do have, I say unto you that if this be the case, that if they should fall into transgression, it would be far more tolerable for the Lamanites than for them.//

Alma 9:24 For behold, the promises of the Lord are extended to the Lamanites, but they are not unto you if ye transgress; for has not the Lord expressly promised and firmly decreed, that \\if ye will rebel against him that ye shall utterly be destroyed from off the face of the earth?//

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Alma 45:11 Yea, and then shall they see wars and pestilences, yea, famines and bloodshed, \\even until the people of Nephi shall become extinct–

Alma 45:12 Yea, and this because they shall dwindle in unbelief and fall into the works of darkness, and lasciviousness, and all manner of iniquities; yea, I say unto you, that because they shall sin against so great light and knowledge,// yea, I say unto you, that from that day, even the fourth generation shall not all pass away before this great iniquity shall come.

Alma 45:13 And when that great day cometh, behold, the time very soon cometh that those who are now, or the seed of those who are now numbered among the people of Nephi, shall no more be numbered among the people of Nephi.

Alma 45:14 But whosoever remaineth, and is not destroyed in that great and dreadful day, shall be numbered among the Lamanites, and shall become like unto them, all, save it be a few who shall be called the disciples of the Lord; and them shall the Lamanites pursue even until they shall become extinct. And now, \\because of iniquity,// this prophecy shall be fulfilled.

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Helaman 2:13 And behold, in the end of this book ye shall see that \\this Gadianton did prove the overthrow, yea, almost the entire destruction of the people of Nephi.//

Helaman 2:14 Behold I do not mean the end of the book of Helaman, but I mean the end of the book of Nephi, from which I have taken all the account which I have written.

-=
Helaman 13:8 Therefore, thus saith the Lord: \\Because of the hardness of the hearts of the people of the Nephites, except they repent I will take away my word from them, and I will withdraw my Spirit from them, and I will suffer them no longer, and I will turn the hearts of their brethren against them.//

Helaman 13:9 And four hundred years shall not pass away before I will cause that they shall be smitten; yea, I will visit them with the sword and with famine and with pestilence.

Helaman 13:10 Yea, I will visit them in my fierce anger, and there shall be those of the fourth generation who shall live, of your enemies, to behold your utter destruction; and \\this shall surely come except ye repent,// saith the Lord; and those of the fourth generation shall visit your destruction.

-=
Ether 8:18 And it came to pass that \\they formed a secret combination,// even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;

Ether 8:21 And \\they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.//

-=
3 Nephi 27:32 But behold, it sorroweth me because of the fourth generation from this generation, for \\they are led away captive by him even as was the son of perdition; for they will sell me for silver and for gold, and for that which moth doth corrupt and which thieves can break through and steal.// And in that day will I visit them, even in turning their works upon their own heads.

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Moroni 8:27 Behold, my son, I will write unto you again if I go not out soon against the Lamanites. Behold, \\the pride of this nation, or the people of the Nephites, hath proven their destruction except they should repent.//

Moroni 8:28 Pray for them, my son, that repentance may come unto them. But behold, I fear lest \\the Spirit hath ceased striving with them;// and in this part of the land \\they are also seeking to put down all power and authority which cometh from God; and they are denying the Holy Ghost.//

Moroni 8:29 And \\after rejecting so great a knowledge, my son, they must perish soon,// unto the fulfilling of the prophecies which were spoken by the prophets, as well as the words of our Savior himself.

-=
Moroni 9:22 But behold, my son, I recommend thee unto God, and I trust in Christ that thou wilt be saved; and I pray unto God that he will spare thy life, to witness the return of his people unto him, or their utter destruction; for I know that \\they must perish except they repent and return unto him.//

Moroni 9:23 And if they perish it will be like unto the Jaredites, \\because of the wilfulness of their hearts, seeking for blood and revenge.//

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ LDS/ Mormons || Blacks and the Priesthood Ban: Are Blacks Marked and Cursed/ Black because of Being Less Valiant in the Preexistence?” by grego

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ LDS/ Mormons || Blacks and the Priesthood Ban: Are Blacks Marked and Cursed/ Black because of Being Less Valiant in the Preexistence?

grego

(c)2013

Are Blacks Black because of Being Less Valiant in the Preexistence?

President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25 , 1869, in Salt Lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the Negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but the posterity of Cain are black because he (Cain) committed murder.”
–From “The Way to Perfection”, pages 105-106.

Yet, President Joseph Fielding Smith taught:
“There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less.” (Doctrines of Salvation, p. 61)

And Elder Bruce R. McConkie taught: “It is the Lord’s doing, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of Spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate.” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pp. 527-528)

However, this statement was removed from the second edition of “Mormon Doctrine”, likely in direction from the First Presidency (or at the least, a more senior apostle).

Is there a connection between where one is born, family, race, country, society, etc. and our faith and action in the preexistence? I believe so.

What is the connection? I have no idea! I don’t think the leaders knew/ know it all, either.

Look at Abraham–his father was an idol worshiper who tried to have him killed; he lived in a strange land, with a strange religion, and wandered forever, far from what “home” he might have had, living among heathens. From that point of view, one might say he was less valiant in the preexistence; but there is no doubt he was not in that category:
Abraham 3:23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
And since the scriptures are a lot about his story, we have much more that proves he was not cursed. But without that for others, it’s hard to tell.

Perhaps the insight that physically and mentally retarded children were choice spirits changed the perspective of leaders. Was being Black really a curse as a result of a curse, or was it a SEEMINGLY “temporary state” for other choice spirits, such as President Monson’s sick fisherman, the beautiful flower in the ugly temporary pot?

Well, more living babies and children die in Africa than about anywhere else in the world. And where do they go in the next life? They are saved in the Celestial kingdom. Is that a curse, or is that much better than where the majority of white children who grow up will go, especially nowadays?

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ LDS/ Mormons: What Did Brigham Young Really Say and Mean about the Blacks and the Ban?” by grego

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ LDS/ Mormons: What Did Brigham Young Really Say and Mean about the Blacks and the Ban?

grego
(c)2013

What Did Brigham Young Really Say, and Really Mean?

In 1854, Brigham Young said:

{Cain} killed his brother. The Lord put a mark on him; and there are some of his children in this room. When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity. He deprived his brother of the privilege of pursuing his journey through life, and of extending his kingdom by multiplying upon the earth; and because he did this, he is the last to share the joys of the kingdom of God.” (Journal of Discourses 2:143)

(Soon after that, in the same talk, he said:
“I would rather undertake to convert five thousand Lamanites, than to convert one of those poor miserable creatures, whose fathers killed the Savior, and who say, “Amen to the deed,” to this day. Yea, I would rather undertake to convert the devil himself, if it were possible.” Seriously?? No, lol. In other words, not everything Brigham Young taught was to be taken as strict doctrine, nor did he hold himself to that.)

Later, in October 1859, at the end of a long talk Brigham Young said:

“Do all the good you can to your fellow creatures. You are flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone. God has created of one blood all the nations and kingdoms of men that dwell upon all the face of the earth: black, white, copper-colored, or whatever their color, customs, or religion, they have all sprung from the same origin; the blood of all is from the same element. Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits.
You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of anyone of the children of Adam.
Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.
Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race—that they should be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.
How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam’s children are brought up to that favorable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood.
They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion.
I have but just commenced my remarks, and have presented you a few texts; and it is now time to adjourn. The exertion required to speak to you somewhat at length seems to injure me. I will therefore stop” (Journal of Discourses 7:290-1).

A few notes:
—There is a difference between the meaning in the two talks, when you get down to specifics. Five years and many incidents and miles are between the two talks. While it might be he had more time to think, it also means he had more time between what Joseph really said and meant, and more time for the thoughts and beliefs of men to sway him (and as with most of us, probably not consciously/ clearly/ overtly).

—in the second talk, he mentions the Adam-God theory in the same breath.

—he never says in either place that the seed of Cain was cursed with no priesthood; just the seed of Canaan (which would be the only remaining seed of Cain after the Flood).

**
On December 3, 1854, Brigham Young said, “When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity” (Journal of Discourses 2:143).

—“When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth…”

At the time of the preaching, there were still plenty of other races and countries where the gospel had not been preached, and it would have been correct.

Then there’s this addition: “and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity.”

Yes, “it will have be time enough”–but there is no restriction about it not being able to be earlier.

**
—“…have had the privilege”:

To “have had the privilege” does not mean that it would be accepted. I had heard in a talk or two at Brigham Young University that President Kimball was actively pursuing all countries and lands for the opening of the gospel before (and during) the supplication; the church had tried to go everywhere in the world it could, but had at that time been rejected repeatedly by everyone.

The only other places to go were where there were Blacks/ much more than “a drop” of Cain’s blood in their veins, and those countries were willing to let the church and missionaries in.

**
—be kind to everyone, we are all—including Blacks—brothers and sisters (though many at the time thought Blacks little more than creatures).

—“Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race–that they should be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.”

And the Abolitionists didn’t, really. However, by the time of the civil rights movement, it WAS happening; not that the movement was the cause of it, but a sign of it.

“Treat the slaves kindly and let them live, for Ham must be the servant of servants until the curse is removed. Can you destroy the decrees of the Almighty? You cannot. Yet our Christian brethren think that they are going to overthrow the sentence of the Almighty upon the seed of Ham. They cannot do that, though they may kill them by thousands and tens of thousands.” http://jod.mrm.org/10/248

Brigham Young: “Ham will continue to be the servant of servants, as the Lord has decreed, until the curse is removed. Will the present struggle free the slave? No; but they are now wasting away the black race by thousands. Many of the blacks are treated worse than we treat our dumb brutes; and men will be called to judgment for the way they have treated the negro, and they will receive the condemnation of a guilty conscience, by the just Judge whose attributes are justice and truth.”

Brigham Young does not preach racism here; in fact, he preaches much like the Indians–treat them well, be good to them, etc.

**
—“That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam’s children are brought up to that favorable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood.”

This time around, he says that until all the others have received them. That seems more like “sorry, you have to wait a while”, but not all of these others will receive and enjoy the priesthood blessings, especially in this life, especially as individuals (not as groups). See the “have had the privilege” and “The Messiah came through them” parts for extra clarification.

**
—“They were the first that were cursed”
–actually, Adam and Eve’s seed were the first to be cursed, and we are still under that curse. However, after the Flood, that curse was partially lifted, through the benevolence of God; and through proven righteousness, Enoch and his people, Melchizedek and his people, a few prophets are no longer under that curse, and that curse has been partially lifted for others.

—This was at the end of his talk; he says he could have said more, and we might have gotten a clearer understanding, but he stopped. I don’t think these talks were to be had as binding doctrine, either.

**
—In that same talk, speaking of the Jews, Brigham Young said:
“The Messiah came through them, and they killed him; and they will be the last of all the seed of Abraham to have the privilege of receiving the New and Everlasting Covenant. You may hand out to them gold, you may feed and clothe them, but it is impossible to convert the Jews, until the Lord God Almighty does it.” (Journal of Discourses 2:142)

As a group, yes, but not each one–some people of the tribe of Judah have been converted. And that might be said for the Blacks right now, too. (Lol, that could be said for about anyone right now.)

**
Lund says:. On page 89 of his book he quotes a statement by the First Presidency that was given on August 17, 1951. That statement read, “The prophets of the Lord have made several statements as to the operation of the principle. President Brigham Young said, ‘Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their father’s rejecting the power of the Holy Priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the Holy Priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the Priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we are now entitled to.'”
Notice Young made certain it was understood that only after “all the rest of the children” have received the priesthood that the curse be lifted. Lund wrote, “It is clearly stated in the above quotes that the Negroes must first pass through mortality before they may possess the Priesthood (‘they will go down to death’)” (p.47).

What does “the rest of the children” mean? “Every single other person” as this person who quoted Lund says? Or it could mean something different.

**
“President Wilford Woodruff noted in his journal that President Young said, “…that mark shall remain upon the seed of Cain until the seed of Abel shall be redeemed, and Cain shall not receive the Priesthood, until the time of that redemption” (History of Wilford Woodruff, p.351, as printed in The Way to Perfection, p.106).
Someone says: “Since the resurrection from the dead has not taken place, and the redemption of Abel’s posterity has not come to fruition, it is apparent that the LDS Church was premature in its 1978 decision.”

Really? Let’s see…
Is this talking about Abel, brother of Cain, or Elijah Abel?
Who are the seed of Abel? Does anyone know?
Are they redeemed? What does that mean?
Has the resurrection taken place? Well of course, from Jesus until now for many of those who died before Jesus, though a few from Jesus till now have also been resurrected. Abel would have been redeemed at that time (see Doctrine and Covenants 138).

2013, April 18

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ LDS/ Mormons | Blacks and the Priesthood Ban: Noah, Ham, and the Priesthood Curse–What Really Happened?” by grego

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ LDS/ Mormons | Blacks and the Priesthood Ban: Noah, Ham, and the Priesthood Curse–What Really Happened?

grego
(c)2013

In the Bible we read of the story of Noah and Ham, and Canaan’s priesthood curse:

Genesis 9
18 ¶And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Because of Ham’s telling his brothers that his father was naked, Canaan, the son of Ham, was cursed with no priesthood. What?? Why?

What did Ham really do? Why didn’t Noah curse Ham instead of his son? Are the children punished for the sins of their fathers? Is there more to this story?

Sure, it’s simply possible that Ham didn’t just tell his brothers, but perhaps mocked Noah, or such.

Now, here are two other chapters in the Old Testament dealing with “nakedness”:
Leviticus 18
6 ¶None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord.
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father’s wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father’s nakedness.
15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son’s wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour’s wife, to defile thyself with her.

Leviticus 20
10 ¶And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11 And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

In light of these Leviticus verses, I wonder, was there something sexual that was done? Was there something similar to Lot being drunk and his daughters taking advantage of that in a wicked way (Genesis 19)?

(Note: only Canaan was cursed, not the other sons of Ham and his wife.)

And if so: was it really Noah, or Noah’s wife? (See Leviticus 20:11 above.)

Was it really Ham, or Ham’s wife?

Did Ham, worried or mad about his father’s attitude towards his wife, seeing his father drunk, send his wife in to have sexual relations with him, and bear Noah’s fifth child? Would Noah dare refuse to give the priesthood to this son?

We read that eight specific people were saved on the ark (in other words, nothing about any of Noah’s grandchildren having been born yet); that this wicked act occurred at least a few years (if not more) after the Flood; and that Canaan is Ham’s fourth and last child.

Also, though it seems he said those things immediately afterward, it’s possible that he said them much later, just that they were connected.

If the child that came from this act, Noah’s son, were Canaan, is that why he specifically was cursed by Noah to not have the priesthood?

Or did Ham or Canaan have illicit relations with Noah?

Or was Canaan already grown, and Canaan was already sexually deviant like his dad, and that’s why he was cursed?

Or is there something even greater—before, or after—that added to this event, and effected the curse? Had something already happened between Noah and Ham, perhaps regarding his marriage to someone outside-the-covenant, and this was Ham’s retribution or revenge?

My best speculation: It is possible that the curse and mark of Cain were “supposed to” be passed on to Ham’s children through his wife, but that Noah took them away from Ham’s children; but after the incident, the curse was returned to and added upon Ham’s last child, Canaan, possibly for a part–directly or indirectly–that he had in the incident. In other words, “How could a redeemed son of God commit such a dirty and in-the-face sin toward one who had originally helped redeem and blessed him greatly?” And thus Canaan fell back under the original curse, and more.

Or…?

Hugh Nibley’s comment, quoted in the Old Testament Institute Manual:
“(4-20) Genesis 9:20–27. Why Did Noah Curse Canaan in This Event When He Was Not Even Present?
The account of Noah’s “nakedness” and the role his sons played in the event is a puzzling one, especially the part in which Noah awakens and pronounces a curse upon Canaan, the son of Ham (see Genesis 10:6), who does not even seem to be present at the time.
Hugh Nibley discussed some of these ancient writings and their implications for the passage in Genesis:

“Incidentally the story of the stolen garment as told by the rabbis, including the great Eleazer, calls for an entirely different rendering of the strange story in Genesis [9] from the version in our King James Bible. They seemed to think that the ’erwath of Genesis [9:22] did not mean ‘nakedness’ at all, but should be given its primary root meaning of ‘skin covering.’ Read thus, we are to understand that Ham
took the garment of his father while he was sleeping and showed it to his brethren, Shem and Japheth, who took a pattern or copy of it (salmah) or else a woven garment like it (simlah) which they put upon their own shoulders, returning the skin garment to their father. Upon awaking, Noah recognized the priesthood of two sons but cursed the son who tried to rob him of his garment.” (Lehi in the Desert and the World of Jaredites, pp. 160–62.)
Therefore, although Ham himself had the right to the priesthood, Canaan, his son, did not. Ham had married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain (Abraham 1:21–24), and so his sons were denied the priesthood.”

(It seems that last sentence is incorrect: as far as we know, Canaan was cursed, but not his three older brothers.)

UPDATE:
After writing this, I searched on the internet, and there are many sites with similar possible insights and explanations, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham. I encourage anyone interested to do their own searches. I did not find anything like the last paragraph, however.

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