Book of Mormon Notes– How deep can you dig?

2010, May 18

“Was Abraham a High Priest before His Almost Being Sacrificed?” by grego

“Was Abraham a High Priest before His Almost Being Sacrificed?”

(c) 2010

In the book of Abraham, it seems that Abraham becomes a high priest at the beginning of the record. I don’t believe that is what happened–that was just an introductional summary, and in fact, it’s not until *after* his “almost sacrifice” that he is ordained a high priest.

Here is what I believe is the introductional summary:
Abraham 1:1 In the land of the Chaldeans, at the residence of my fathers, I, Abraham, saw that it was needful for me to obtain another place of residence;
2 And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.
3 It was conferred upon me from the fathers…
4 I sought for mine appointment unto the Priesthood according to the appointment of God unto the fathers concerning the seed.

Though it sounds like Abraham already has the priesthood before the next part, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Then, comes the beginning of the story. Note that at this time, Abraham is in Chaldea.
Abraham 1:8 Now, at this time it was the custom of the priest of Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, to offer up upon the altar which was built in the land of Chaldea, for the offering unto these strange gods, men, women, and children.
20 Behold, Potiphar’s Hill was in the land of Ur, of Chaldea… and there was great mourning in Chaldea…

The priest tries to sacrifice Abraham, and he prays; then this:
Abraham 1:15 … behold, I lifted up my voice unto the Lord my God, and the Lord hearkened and heard, and he filled me with the vision of the Almighty, and the angel of his presence stood by me, and immediately unloosed my bands;
16 And his voice was unto me: Abraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee, and to take thee away from thy father’s house, and from all thy kinsfolk, into a strange land which thou knowest not of;
17 And this because they have turned their hearts away from me, to worship [false gods]; therefore I have come down to visit them, and to destroy him who hath lifted up his hand against thee, Abraham, my son, to take away thy life.
18 Behold, I will lead thee by my hand, and I will take thee, to put upon thee my name, even the Priesthood of thy father, and my power shall be over thee.
19 As it was with Noah so shall it be with thee; but through thy ministry my name shall be known in the earth forever, for I am thy God.

It seems like Jehovah promises him the priesthood, which means he didn’t have it yet.

Abraham had the records with him, which taught him concerning the priesthood; he kept it:
31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me.

Then, Abraham leaves Chaldea. Note that he hadn’t left Chaldea before, and how this is the same time as Abraham 1:1:
Abraham 2:3 Now the Lord had said unto me: Abraham, get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will show thee.
4 Therefore I left the land of Ur, of the Chaldees,…

Jehovah speaks about the priesthood and Abraham’s blessings:
Abraham 2:8 My name is Jehovah, and I know the end from the beginning; therefore my hand shall be over thee.
9 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and Priesthood unto all nations;
10 And I will bless them through thy name; for as many as receive this Gospel shall be called after thy name, and shall be accounted thy seed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their father;
11 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.
12 Now, after the Lord had withdrawn from speaking to me, and withdrawn his face from me, I said in my heart: Thy servant has sought thee earnestly; now I have found thee;
13 Thou didst send thine angel to deliver me from the gods of Elkenah, and I will do well to hearken unto thy voice, therefore let thy servant rise up and depart in peace.

Abraham has found what he was looking for: to become a high priest.

2010, May 6

Book of Mormon | “Seven women will take hold of one man–LDS Church/ Mormon Polygamy?” by grego

“Seven Women Will Take Hold of One Man”:  Is this LDS Polygamy?

(c) 2009

Many LDS/ Mormons/ members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have wondered if these verses were describing a future of polygamy:

Isaiah 4:1 says:
1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

2 Nephi 14:1 says:
And in that day, seven women shall take hold of one man, saying: We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach.

Many have wondered, is this talking about LDS Church/ Mormon polygamy?

No, it’s not.

A few clues come in the verse itself, while others come in the contexts preceding and following.

First,there is no mention that this would be God-ordained; it’s the women wanting the man; thus, not LDS polygamy.

It also suggests that this is not really a marriage relationship; this would be impossible with gospel polygamy.

LDS women won’t want to get married “just to be married”.

Also, there is no reproach in being single in the gospel.

Next, look at the context this verse is given in:

2 Nephi 3 says:
12 And my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.
13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.
14 The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people and the princes thereof; for ye have eaten up the vineyard and the spoil of the poor in your houses.
15 What mean ye? Ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor, saith the Lord God of Hosts.
16 Moreover, the Lord saith: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet—
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments, and cauls, and round tires like the moon;
19 The chains and the bracelets, and the mufflers;
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the ear-rings;
21 The rings, and nose jewels;
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping-pins;
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and hoods, and the veils.
24 And it shall come to pass, instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle, a rent; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a stomacher, a girding of sackcloth; burning instead of beauty.
25 Thy men shall fall by the sword and thy mighty in the war.
26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she shall be desolate, and shall sit upon the ground.

2 Nephi 4:2-6 say:
2 In that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious; the fruit of the earth excellent and comely to them that are escaped of Israel.
3 And it shall come to pass, they that are left in Zion and remain in Jerusalem shall be called holy, every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem—
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning.
5 And the Lord will create upon every dwelling-place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night; for upon all the glory of Zion shall be a defence.
6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and a covert from storm and from rain.

It is possible that these women would be the unrighteous “daughters of Zion”.  The men will die in war.  Note that “[i]n that day shall the branch of the Lord be beautiful and glorious”–not something this would be describing, were it LDS polygamy.

Note also that the LDS Church was pushing for a constitutional amendment which, even though is seemed it was just against gay/ lesbian marriage, was also against polygamy.  The amendment was to affirm marriage as a “union between *a* man and *a* woman”.

2010, April 14 Is Missing THIS

“ Is Missing This”

(c) 2010

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) has a new website for overcoming pornography called

I’d like to add one very important part that is missing: energy work.

Energy work is currently the best healing available—much more so than 12-step programs, traditional counseling, and non-traditional counseling ( ).

It is also likely that addiction is aided by wicked spirits, to some degree, and at one time or another—and this is something that 12-step programs, traditional counseling, and non-traditional counseling don’t deal with.

So, for the best in overcoming addiction—pornographic or any other type—try some energy work, such as EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique). Even good NLP can do much better than a 12-step program. Also, look into “spirit release therapy”.

2009, May 4

Pandemic Flu Prevention and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ Mormons

Pandemic Flu Prevention and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ Mormons/ LDS Church
by grego

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ Mormons/ or LDS Church’s information on “Pandemic Flu Prevention”, found at:,11666,6631-1-3415-1,00.html, is interesting as expected. Here is what is says:

“Pandemic Preparedness Planning is a series of fact sheets that provide information on how individuals, families, and health care workers can prepare for a possible flu pandemic.

Note: The following link is not to official Church publications, but is provided as additional resource material.

Pandemic Flu information for “Individuals and Families planning”. This page is located on the Center for Disease Control Web site.”

There is nothing official from the Church, just links to offsite government documents.

Also interesting is the covering of just about everything, in detail, except for the most necessary information: treatment. I applaud the LDS Church for not linking to information on that, and for leaving that out.

There are many medicines for the flu; you just won’t find much of anything under Western medicine, which is why everyone seems to be so scared.

Does the Book of Mormon have any insight as to where one might place hope, if not in Western medicine’s medicine?

Referring to a previous post:

“Alma 46:40 And there were some who died with fevers, which at some seasons of the year were very frequent in the land—but not so much so with fevers, because of the *excellent qualities of the many plants and roots which God had prepared* to remove the cause of diseases, to which men were subject by the nature of the climate—

(P.S. Those plants and roots didn’t necessarily have a brand name on them… Even many good dried herbs can contain poison from the drying/ preserving process, so ask before you buy! You might want to consider asking and buying from a real herbalist that doesn’t use those methods, rather than from a big manufacturing and distributing company.)”

I suggest, if you are really scared/ worried/ want to be prepared, to invest somewhere between $20-80 and get all the medicine you’ll need for a little while. And as a bonus, for a few more dollars, you can buy garlic, onions, ginger, horseradish, vinegar, and cayenne pepper powder.

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2008, November 26

Mormon/ LDS History: Does the Mormon Church Cover-up, Lie, or Whitewash Its History?

Mormon/ LDS History: Does the Mormon Church Cover-up, Lie, or Whitewash Its History?
by grego

Of course not all history can make it into a small (or even large) volume that will be read by all. But are there lies and whitewashes, especially an unfair unbalance in the presentation? Well, there are summaries, and summaries don’t tell it all. (I know of much current history that is known by just a few, but that’s a little different, and that happens with everyone and everything.)

Yesterday, however, I was reminded that yes, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ Mormon/ LDS Church *DOES* whitewash history, in a certain way. But I would call it “blackwash”… Let me explain.

See, I was on reading the histories of the early Saints/ LDS members ( ) researching information for another article/ blog post. And though I was looking for a few select quotes, I started reading more and more, and spent much of the day doing so. (That was not the first time I had been on the site, reading the journals/ records.) I was glad for those records, and I strongly encourage you to go read them for yourself. In fact, I think I would rather have my children read just four of those than to take a semester of LDS Church history at a BYU school.

As I was reading, I wondered, “If it were true that the LDS/ Mormon Church were so concerned with hiding church historical details, why would church leaders encourage members–past and present–to keep diaries/ journals, especially of church matters? That didn’t really make sense to me; how about you? Nor did the preservation of all the records on that website, which seems to be a BYU (Brigham Young University) website. Note this quote from the website also: “If you have, or know of, a journal, autobiography, diary or letters of other contemporaries of Joseph Smith, Jr. and would like to see them in this collection, please email us.” Sound like a cover-up, lie, or whitewash?

But one thing is absolutely certain and clear about these records: the stories they tell of the violence, bigotry, unlawfulness, hate, and evil done to them by both apostates and other “Christians” and others is more gorily detailed, emotionally moving, and damning than any LDS Church history book I have ever read–especially those books put out by the LDS Church.

On the other hand, the Saints’ suffering and dedication and sacrifice, the miracles and visions and blessings the Lord provided for them as groups and especially as individuals, their insights and testimonies and humility–is far stronger, much more frequent, more emotionally moving, spiritual, down-to-earth, poignant, truthful, and wonderful than any LDS Church history book I have ever read–especially those books put out by the LDS Church.

Which led to my conclusion: yes, the LDS Church does cover-up and whitewash its own history–against its own favor.

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2008, September 3

grego: My Critique of “A logical proof that Mormonism is false” by CARM

grego: My Critique of “A logical proof that Mormonism is false” by CARM


“Mormonism teaches an infinite regression of causes. This means that it teaches that each god was made a god by a previous god. This means that as far back as you look in time, this process has always been occurring. This means that from an infinity of time in the past, the Mormon plan of exaltation (become gods) has been in effect. The only problem is that this is logically impossible. Since it is logically impossible, this means that Mormonism is false. Let’s look closer.”

grego: Wow! That is so cool, that was simple to disprove all of Mormonism with that little thingy.

Here’s something else to wrap your mind around: God was always God. Can you? Not really, huh. Is it logical? I mean, he’s been God for trillions times trillions times trillions times googols and more and more–he never started, and will never end; and is *always* the same. (And angels have been singing and singing for almost that long, too–well, maybe–he created them, too, just to have some music in the house or something?) Infinite in time. How did he get there? (I mean, I know he didn’t get there, he’s infinite, but…) Is it lonely to be God, or is that why he created us, to keep him company? So he waited an infinity to create us, and we’re going to sing an infinity afterward to him? Did he create Satan like he created us and the angels, or is Satan infinite, too? Is Satan never-changing like God, too? “Always the same” means to these people, I guess, that he can’t brush his hair or teeth or talk (I guess that includes giving scripture) or walk or move in any way at all, can’t change form (Trinity, anyone?), can’t feel sorrow for the sinner or joy for the repentant, … Whoops. I’ve contradicted the Bible and the gospel, which means that, according to these people, there is no God for them. Is that all logical? Not quite.

Let’s start somewhere else in the article: “As far back as you look in time…” Is there time with God? Can you imagine “no time”? What is that? What does it mean? Any logical answer, CARMS? Help me, because I’m not there yet.

When you talk about “logic” like CARMS, you need some strict definitions and structure for it to hold true. And CARMS doesn’t provide the correct foundation–which was the point of my first paragraph.

Hey, here’s some better logic to prove a church is false that even CARMS could appreciate, I guess: if one facet of one not-clear and not-fully-explained teaching of one church is, according to my interpretation, illogical/ doesn’t make sense, then the entire church and any other teaching of theirs that I disagree with, are also false! (I love this!)

I wonder if this also means that if someone interprets the Bible differently than me, according to my interpretation (which is always correct, of course), then everything else the person disagrees about with me, is also false! And also the Bible is false, because he called himself a Christian and he interpreted wrong! (Is this working for you, people? No? I didn’t think so! It doesn’t work for me, either.)

That way, I get to stay at the center of the universe (not just “my” universe, mind you!), never have to admit to being wrong, never have to change much, never have to give any mind to how illogical my thinking might be…

So, well, this isn’t “logical proof that Mormonism is false”. It can be said to be something that doesn’t seem to make sense given their understanding, and to seek further clarification. But why bother with understanding and seeking clarification when you just know it’s wrong in the first place, anyway?

Hey, if a man says something, and a woman’s not around to hear it, is he still wrong? ;)

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