Book of Mormon Notes– How deep can you dig?

2011, April 14

“Irony in the Gospel of Jesus Christ: ‘You Aren’t Christian’, Said the Christian to the Christian (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint/ LDS/ Mormon), ‘Because even though You Believe in Jesus Christ and Research Shows You’re Closer to Original Christianity, The Way I Interpret the Bible Says You Aren’t Christian'” grego

Irony in the Gospel of Jesus Christ: ‘You Aren’t Christian’, Said the Christian to the Christian (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint/ LDS/ Mormon), ‘Because even though You Believe in Jesus Christ and Research Shows You’re Closer to Original Christianity, The Way I Interpret the Bible Says You Aren’t Christian’


A preacher preaches:
“the religious sect does not align with historic Christianity. In fact, it preaches a false gospel.”

grego says:

Citations, please! The research I’m familiar with says the opposite. (Which is funny, because I haven’t ever heard a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints bring that up in an explanation as to why they believe the church is true… though it’s there.)

The preacher continues:

“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,” according to the Mormon Articles of Faith.

Those laws and ordinances include faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism by immersion for emission of sins and the laying on of hands for the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Additionally, the way to salvation includes joining the LDS church, believing in God, Jesus and Joseph Smith (LDS founder) as prophet and Brigham Young as successor.

Explaining what Christians believe, Phillips stated that the true gospel of the Bible proclaims that salvation comes by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone and by the grace of God alone.

“It’s not Jesus plus anything,” the pastor emphasized.

“Salvation is a free and unmerited gift from God,” he added.

Here are my thoughts on that:

And who the heck does this pastor think he is, putting himself in the equation?!?? How ironic—take out Joseph Smith and Brigham Young (and many more he didn’t mention!), but put himself in… If I just need Jesus, why do I need this pastor? Anyone?

And if “it’s not Jesus plus anything,” why is the Bible needed?

And if “salvation is a free and unmerited gift from God”, why bother worrying about Mormons/ LDS, who will be saved anyway, right?

And why bother worrying about whether members of his church will join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons/ LDS)? Who needs his church, anyway? “I believe in Jesus!” DONE, right?

Oh, did someone say “money”? I don’t know, ask him, don’t ask me.

The pastor continues:

“That is why Jesus became sin for us and took it to the cross and killed it.”

… “In a time where there’s so much religious plurality, there’s so much uncertainty about faith, there’s so much biblical illiteracy, and the media does such a great job of giving us misinformation, in our times we must say without question that Mormonism is not Christianity.”

“It is in fact actually another gospel that leads away from salvation that the Bible offers in Christ alone.”

grego’s thoughts:

Jesus killed? What did he kill? Sin? Could someone explain, please?

Whoops, and here I was, thinking salvation was a free and unmerited gift, only to find out that if you are Mormon, according to some Christian pastor, you actually *demerit* yourself and can’t obtain salvation…? I guess Jesus isn’t strong enough? Or what? Anyone, please?

2011, April 12

“How Do You Turn a Wonderful Christian into a Moronic Jerk in Less than a Second?” by grego

How Do You Turn a Wonderful Christian into a Moronic Jerk in Less than a Second?


I have lots of “drafts” sitting in my draft box, waiting to be completed. I often go there to start, especially when I’m not particularly inspired. There are many times, though, that once there something “pops up” and I’m back to a “New Post” page. This is one of those times.

One of those drafts is titled “A Mormon! A Mormon! Anyone but a Mormon!” and is to be about the USA presidency.

More critical, however, is something on my mind many times over the past years.

I sat by a guy in a high school class year-long; good guy. We talked a lot. Really good Christian, etc.

Unfortunately, he had been brainwashed by his leaders into believing that Mormons were devilish. I glanced through a few anti-Mormon books he brought to class, and thanked him for letting me do so; I guess (now) that he inferred that I was anti-Mormon.
I had no great plan drawn up, or diabolical scheme, or whatever, of misleading him, etc. All year, I was pretty much just “me”.
One day near the end of school I felt a prompting to take a triple combination (Book of Mormon and other scriptures) to school, and he noticed it. He asked what it was, and I let him see it. He thumbed it a second, got red, then quickly handed it back. “Why do you have it?” “It’s mine.” “Why?” “I’m a Mormon.”

He was dumbstruck. Literally. For the rest of the period. And longer. Not that he didn’t want to talk. He couldn’t talk.

I would see him get red, look at me, start to say something, think, then shake his head and look away. Or some variation of that. All in all, one word summed it up best: confused.

I guess he felt the same way about me, as I about him. But he couldn’t understand how I was both a good person AND a “good” Mormon—I guess those two were supposed to be incompatible. (Maybe he figured that those Mormons really were devils, able to appear as such sheep, when in fact they were just wolves in sheep’s clothing…)

It took a few days, but he got his voice back; after that, things weren’t like they had been; but the year still ended somewhat amicably. (I guessed right that he would write some bad things in my yearbook about it, and I thought about sharing my testimony in his yearbook, but I decided it would be better not to; I had already done so in person.)

That guy was not a hypocritical Christian, but one who seemed to do his best (and it was good) at being a Christian.

That brings me to other experiences, on the internet.

It’s disheartening to see so many Christians who “get it” in so many ways, have great intentions, and would make wonderful partners in working together to do good and uphold truly Christian principles and the Constitution, and could surely be an example to and teach members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints about much—then lose it all and close their doors and lock them as soon as “Mormon” is brought up (similarly as my friend did).

I have posted on some of these good Christian websites, but the posts never make it up—even if I include nothing about Mormons except this website address when it asks for one in the identification process. They can’t even edit out my website address, and add my positive comment.

I have heard and seen all kinds of similar things on Christian discussion boards.

It seems that any type of common ground, whether sought or not, is denied as much as possible. I understand much better now: of course no Christian wants to say members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ Mormons are Christians; that finds common ground.

For some reason, that word—“Mormon”—is so powerful it can make otherwise wonderful Christians turn into moronic jerks in less than a second.

So, if this continues (and I’m sure it will), perhaps in the coming days Christians will take a stand against the church of Satan/ Illuminati and the government—pretty much by themselves. And when help is needed, and they are desperate beyond measure, they’ll turn to those they ignored/ cast out/ persecuted before and cry for help—and the help will come.

Hold on, brother, hold on!

2008, November 10

Will the REAL Christian(TM) Jesus Please Stand Up?

Will the REAL Christian(TM) Jesus Please Stand Up?
by grego

Do Mormons believe in the real God, the real Jesus? “No, they don’t!” say many Christians(TM). “The real Christian(TM) Jesus is not the Mormon Jesus!” What do I say?

I have one question first, that is *necessary* to answer before being able to answer that question: WHICH Christian Jesus is the *real* Jesus? The one that taught that baptism was necessary for salvation, or the one that taught that baptism was not necessary for salvation? The one that taught predestination and election, or the one that taught free will? The one that taught resurrection with a physical body, or the done that didn’t? The one that taught that he and his Father were one, or the one that taught they weren’t? The one who left all his words in the Bible to make it complete, or the one who spoke so many good words and did so many good works that they weren’t all written down? The one who can still communicate with man, or the one who has been silenced? The one whose work is done, or the one who still hasn’t finished his work?

Christians might better understand this question relating it to Jesus asking the Sadducees and the Pharisees which God they belived in–the one that taught the resurrection, or the one that didn’t? The one that believed the traditions of the elders, or the one that rejected them and relied on the original law of Moses? Which way to perform the temple ordinances? The one that taught that there were spirit beings, or that the spirit died with the body? The God that gave rewards and punishments in the next life, or the God that didn’t provide a next life? Or were both the Sadducees and the Pharisees, um, maybe… both not quite right on all the points, and that’s why Jesus was there, teaching and establishing a church?

So, which Christian(TM) Jesus is the real Jesus that one must believe in to be saved? After hundreds of years, and Christians(TM) still can’t come to a conclusion about the real Jesus.

Had all Christians been decided on the same Jesus, there likely would have been little turmoil in Joseph Smith’s mind and heart over this matter. But they weren’t, and it led to Joseph Smith seeing and hearing Jesus (the *real* Jesus, for LDS, of course–not one known through interpretation of written words only).

So until Christians can unite and decide which of all the Christian(TM) Jesuses is the *real* Jesus, it’s useless to ask this question and pretend to compare the Christian(TM) Jesus with the LDS Jesus, and it’s impossible for LDS/ Mormons to answer the question.

In essence, it is the same Jesus; but the difference is in what I would say is, knowing Him.

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