Book of Mormon Notes– How deep can you dig?

2018, November 11

“’Thus Saith the Lord’–Necessary to Be a Prophet?” by grego

“‘Thus Saith the Lord’–Necessary to Be a Prophet” by grego

(c) 2018 by grego

There are some break-off LDS (at least figuratively speaking) that declare that unless a prophet uses the four words “thus saith the Lord”, he is not really a prophet; and that since Joseph Smith was the last one to use those words, he was the last true prophet; thus, from Brigham Young on down, the keys have been lost and the current LDS prophet, President Nelson, is not truly the (or even a) prophet of God.

So I figured, let’s check this out.

So I searched for what shows up in the LDS scriptures (Bible: Old Testament, Bible: New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price), Joseph Smith sermons/ discourses/ etc., and LDS prophets after him.

Bible: Old Testament: 162 verses/ tight groups of verses
Which prophets?
Moses/Aaron: 8 verses/ tight groups of verses
An unnamed prophet: 1 verse
Joshua: 1 verse
A prophet: 1 verse
A man of God: 1 verse (1 Samuel 2)
Samuel: 2 verses (one quoting Moses)
Nathan: 2 verses/ tight group of verses
Gad: 1 verse
Ahijiah: 1 verse
Shemaiah: 1 verse
A man of God: 1 verse (1 Kings 13:2)
Ahijah: 1 verse (1 Kings 14)
Elijah: 3 verses
A prophet: 1 verse/ tight group of verses (1 Kings 20)
A man of God: 1 verse (1 Kings 20)
A certain man of the sons of the prophets: 1 verse (1 Kings 20)
Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah: 1 verse
Elisha: 4 verses
Elisha, a young man the prophet, Jehu: 1 verse
Isaiah: 2 verses/ tight groups of verses
His servants the prophets: 1 verse/ tight groups of verses (2 Kings 21)
Huldah the prophetess: 1 verse/ tight groups of verses (2 Kings 22)
Jahaziel the son of Zechariah: 1 verse (2 Chronicles 20)
Isaiah: 19 verses/ tight groups of verses
Jeremiah: 46 verses/ tight groups of verses
Ezekiel: 27 verses/ tight groups of verses
Amos: 5 verses/ tight groups of verses
Obadiah: 1 verse/ tight groups of verses
Micah: 2 verses/ tight groups of verses
Nahum: 1 verse/ tight groups of verses
Haggai: 2 verses/ tight groups of verses
Zecheriah: 5 verses/ tight groups of verses
Malachi: 1 verses/ tight groups of verses

Which prophets do NOT?
and many more.

Bible: New Testament: 0 verses
Which prophets do NOT?
John the Baptist
Peter, James, John, Paul, etc.

Pearl of Great Price: 1 verse
Which prophet?

Which prophets didn’t?
Adam, Abel, Abraham, Moses

Book of Mormon: 25 verses/ tight groups of verses; 11 that aren’t quoting Old Testament prophets
Which prophets?
Nephi (1 time),
Jacob (3 times in the same sermon),
King Benjamin (1 time),
Abinadi (a few times),
King Mosiah (seems to be quoting a prophet),
an angel,
Alma (seems to be quoting a prophet),
Nephi 3 (2 times; commanded to say it one time; seems to be quoting a prophet the other),
and Samuel the Lamanite.

Which prophets do NOT?
King Mosiah
Many prophets
Alma the elder
Captain Moroni
Helaman 1
Helaman 2
Nephi 4
Brother of Jared
All the Jaredite prophets

Doctrine and Covenants: 51 verses/ tight groups of verses
Which prophets?
Joseph Smith

So, what does that mean to all the prophets that didn’t say it? Were they not really prophets? Do we throw their scriptures, sayings, and teachings out? What are scriptures?
DC 68: 2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth—
3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.
4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

That is from Joseph Smith, and he is talking not just about the BIG prophets, but about anyone ordained to the priesthood and called to preach.

What does that mean to all the prophets who say it, but only in front of a few things? Does that mean every other separate saying and teaching were NOT from God? Or only the things that came before they ever spoke “thus saith the Lord”?

What about Jesus? He only says the equivalent twice in his visit to the Nephites, and one was a reference to another prophet. Whew! Guess He made it by one verse… ;(

Joseph Smith called many people prophets who didn’t say “thus saith the Lord”–what are we to make of that??

Joseph Smith preached quite a bit without saying, “Thus saith the Lord”.

According to this thinking, the Book of Mormon would be false, because neither Mormon nor Moroni say “thus saith the Lord”.

What about other LDS prophets, after Joseph Smith?
From Woodruff often wrote in his journal such words as “Thus saith the Lord, to my servant Wilford.”[36] He also recorded many personal revelations in his journal, often writing them in the form and language of scripture. However, he did not often [publicly] use that language with the Saints. On October 25, 1891, he wrote:
“Some had thought that revelation had ceased, but this is not the case. The Lord is with us and gives us revelation. But I will say for myself that I wish to avoid saying “Thus saith the Lord” as far as I can when I give the will of the Lord to the people. In the days of Joseph Smith, it was “Thus saith the Lord” almost daily until the revelations now embodied in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants had been given. Since that day President Brigham Young, John Taylor, and myself have seldom used the words (thus saith the Lord) when giving the word of the Lord to the people.”[37]

I hope after all this it is very clear that a prophet does NOT need to say, “Thus saith the Lord” to be a prophet.

(Book of Mormon references
2 Nephi 5:22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

Jacob 2:23, 25, 28
23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
• • •
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
• • •
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

King Benjamin:
Mosiah 3:24 And thus saith the Lord: They shall stand as a bright testimony against this people, at the judgment day; whereof they shall be judged, every man according to his works, whether they be good, or whether they be evil.

Mosiah 11: 20, 25
20 And it came to pass that there was a man among them whose name was Abinadi; *and he went forth among them, and began to prophesy, saying: Behold, thus saith the Lord, and thus hath he commanded me, saying, Go forth, and say unto this people, thus saith the Lord—Wo be unto this people, for I have seen their abominations, and their wickedness, and their whoredoms; and except they repent I will visit them in mine anger.
• • •
25 And except they repent in sackcloth and ashes, and cry mightily to the Lord their God, I will not hear their prayers, neither will I deliver them out of their afflictions; and thus saith the Lord, and thus hath he commanded me.

Mosiah 12: 2
2 Yea, wo be unto this generation! And the Lord said unto me: Stretch forth thy hand and prophesy, saying: Thus saith the Lord, it shall come to pass that this generation, because of their iniquities, shall be brought into bondage, and shall be smitten on the cheek; yea, and shall be driven by men, and shall be slain; and the vultures of the air, and the dogs, yea, and the wild beasts, shall devour their flesh.

King Mosiah:
Mosiah 23:7 But he said unto them: Behold, it is not expedient that we should have a king; for thus saith the Lord: Ye shall not esteem one flesh above another, or one man shall not think himself above another; therefore I say unto you it is not expedient that ye should have a king.

Alma 8:17, 29
17 For behold, they do study at this time that they may destroy the liberty of thy people, (for thus saith the Lord) which is contrary to the statutes, and judgments, and commandments which he has given unto his people.
• • •
29 And the word came to Alma, saying: Go; and also say unto my servant Amulek, go forth and prophesy unto this people, saying—Repent ye, for thus saith the Lord, except ye repent I will visit this people in mine anger; yea, and I will not turn my fierce anger away.

Alma 45:16 And he said: Thus saith the Lord God—Cursed shall be the land, yea, this land, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, unto destruction, which do wickedly, when they are fully ripe; and as I have said so shall it be; for this is the cursing and the blessing of God upon the land, for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Nephi 3:
Helaman 7:23 For behold, thus saith the Lord: I will not show unto the wicked of my strength, to one more than the other, save it be unto those who repent of their sins, and hearken unto my words. Now therefore, I would that ye should behold, my brethren, that it shall be better for the Lamanites than for you except ye shall repent.
Helaman 10: 11, 14
11 And now behold, I command you, that ye shall go and declare unto this people, that thus saith the Lord God, who is the Almighty: Except ye repent ye shall be smitten, even unto destruction.
• • •
14 Therefore Nephi did declare unto them the word of the Lord, saying: Except ye repent, thus saith the Lord, ye shall be smitten even unto destruction.

Helaman 13: 8, 11
8 Therefore, thus saith the Lord: Because of the hardness of the hearts of the people of the Nephites, except they repent I will take away my word from them, and I will withdraw my Spirit from them, and I will suffer them no longer, and I will turn the hearts of their brethren against them.
• • •
11 But if ye will repent and return unto the Lord your God I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord; yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but wo unto him that repenteth not.

In His visit to the Nephites, Jesus only says “saith the Father” or equivalent in two verses:
3 Nephi 16:10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
3 Nephi 24:1 And it came to pass that he commanded them that they should write the words which the Father had given unto Malachi, which he should tell unto them. And it came to pass that after they were written he expounded them. And these are the words which he did tell unto them, saying: Thus said the Father unto Malachi—Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom ye seek shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in; behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of Hosts.)

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