Book of Mormon Notes– How deep can you dig?

2011, March 14

“Is May 21, 2011 Judgment Day for the Mormons/ LDS Church?” by grego

Is May 21, 2011 Judgment Day for the Mormons/ LDS Church?

grego
(c) 2011

So, some people believe that May 21, 2011, is Judgment Day/ the Rapture.

I could quote Bible scripture after scripture at different levels to show it’s from unlikely to impossible, but I don’t think it’s all necessary for the honest seeker of truth.

We just need a very small review of one event in the Holy Bible to know this isn’t right:
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 ¶But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 ¶Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 ¶But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

In other words, somehow, even though Jesus Christ tells his apostles that the angels and even Jesus himself DON’T KNOW, some good Christian leaders DO KNOW.

Who will you believe: the Holy Bible, Jesus Christ, the Spirit, and the light of Christ;
or
those “Christian” leaders claiming special insight?

“Judgment Day” is NOT happening on May 21, 2011, or anytime soon. It likely won’t even happen before 2020 (see my article below for more).

I can clearly tell you that all those who claim to know that May 21, 2011 is the Judgment Day/ the Rapture and/ or that October is the End of the World, are false prophets who lack the spirit of understanding and/ or have the wrong spirit (of deception and the evil one), or are parrots of the false prophets. People who try to bring mysteries into the light, but in the same process put light into dark closets.

It would be nice in one way if that date were the end. The world is already past the point of wickedness in the past—even past the point of wickedness of the people at the time of Noah and the Flood. However, the world will get much, much worse in the coming days. And, God’s work and church will become more and more evident to all as the world gets darker and darker.

So if you think May 21 is “IT”, and it isn’t, please, please, please, look into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS/ Mormon church) and the true living prophets of the Lord Jesus Christ: http://lds.org/study/prophets-speak-today/recent-messages?lang=eng .

More on this blog, including Biblical signs that haven’t been fulfilled yet: https://bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com/2011/04/16/member-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-lds-mormon-the-bible-proves-may-21-2011-will-not-be-judgment-day-noah-hardly-knew-and-likely-neither-will-i-by-grego/

28 Comments »

  1. If Christ doesn’t know the time of His return then when He was asked in Matthew 24:3 what the sign of the end of the world would be, should He have responded by saying He doesn’t know? It doesn’t make sense that Christ would tell so much about the end of the world and then turn around and say even He doesn’t know the time of His return.

    And how can you explain this verse? Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    God says there is a day appointed at the beginning of the verse and this would make sense if it was just the Father who knew and that’s what this verse was talking about but in John 10:30 Christ says I and my Father are one. If that is true than Christ would have know to this day that God has appointed.

    To say Christ doesn’t know the day doesn’t make Biblical sense, that is not a sound doctrine.

    Comment by Nathan — 2011, March 22 @ 4:57 am

  2. Hi Nathan,

    Biblically, Christ said neither he nor the angels knew, so I’d have to disagree with your last sentence. But, does He know now?

    Acts 17:31 “Because [God] hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
    Yes, I agree, God knows. Has God put the date on a calendar? I imagine he could, being omniscient.

    So what you’re asking is, if God the Father knows, and he and Christ are one (John 10:30), how can Christ not know; is that correct?

    That would depend on a few things; and here are some things to consider:
    –Christ didn’t know everything on earth; he also had a veil of forgetting, which grew thinner through his righteousness and spirituality. However, there were still things He did not know; He did know everything He was meant to know at the time.
    –the Father and the Son are not the same, nor their roles, nor are they uniformly one. I and my father are one—in what ways?
    In my opinion, it is very likely that Christ knows now. If He doesn’t, I am sure there are beneficial reasons. I can accept either—I mean, whatever is true, is true, notwithstanding my opinion. :)

    Comment by grego — 2011, March 23 @ 2:19 am

  3. Have you looked up the word “Son” in Mark 13:32? It’s the same word that is used for anyone’s son and is more correctly translated in the lowercase form. Not to mention there is another son talked about in the Bible, the son of perdition: satan.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    Isn’t it possible that rather than Mark 13:32 talking about Christ, who is eternal God made flesh, it is actually talking about satan? I definitely think so. You say Christ didn’t know everything on Earth, but you didn’t back it up Biblically and I know of no verse or passage from the Bible that backs that up either. You notice Christ was never rushing to get anywhere when He was on earth, He always knew where He had to be and when. He always had an answer, and when He was praying to the Father before His death you don’t think the drops of blood falling from His head were because He knew what He was about to go through?

    Christ and the Father are one, and yet separate. I don’t believe this is something we can understand yet and that it is something we can only understand once the God takes His people to be with Him forevermore.

    Comment by Nathan — 2011, March 23 @ 2:55 pm

  4. Hi Nathan,

    The context is pretty tight here, that Jesus is talking about himself and not Satan.
    The Bible never refers to Satan as just “son”, “the son”, “the son of the father”, etc. Only one person is–Jesus.
    And I’m not sure how “son of perdition” is in the original, either.
    Mark 13:32, is definitely talking about Christ. Perhaps you have found an article by a Biblical scholar that agrees with your point of view? I would be interested in reading it.

    “You say Christ didn’t know everything on Earth, but you didn’t back it up Biblically and I know of no verse or passage from the Bible that backs that up either.”
    No, I didn’t. I don’t know that I will, at least not right now. However, consider these two verses:
    Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
    Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
    Waxing strong in spirit and increasing in wisdom seem very hard to do for someone who is already full in the spirit and knows everything.

    “You notice Christ was never rushing to get anywhere when He was on earth, He always knew where He had to be and when.”
    I pretty much agree here.

    “He always had an answer, and when He was praying to the Father before His death you don’t think the drops of blood falling from His head were because He knew what He was about to go through?”
    I can understand that view, but actually, I believe they were falling because of what he was going through right then, not what he was going to go through–the atonement of man’s sins, which mainly occurred in the garden. I believe that yes, he knew what was coming up very soon, too.

    “Christ and the Father are one, and yet separate. I don’t believe this is something we can understand yet and that it is something we can only understand once the God takes His people to be with Him forevermore.”
    We probably have different opinions on this and as to why, but I pretty much agree here, too.

    May 21, we’ll see, I guess.

    By the way, I noticed you quoted 2 Thess.—what is your belief as to the fulfillment of this second coming prophecy?

    Comment by grego — 2011, March 24 @ 3:29 am

  5. I believe May 21 is the end, the church age as ended and that this world is ready for judgment. I haven’t always of course, but I feel God has reinforced this in my life again and again. I don’t feel I am following a man, or group of men, because no matter what God has to be the teacher, He is the authority. By His mercy He has pulled me out of so many bad situations and turned me back to him. I could go into more about May 21, but I’m sure you know where to get more information about it.

    The only thing I have to say other than that I guess is that I don’t have an article from any professional scholar of the Bible about Mark 13:32. But I also don’t put much stock in people with those scholarships either. How many people God used in the Bible to get the gospel out who had gone to school and received doctorates in the field of study? The only one I can think of is Paul and he had to be correct by Christ about what he had been taught, and perhaps Eli or one or two others. Elisha was plowing a field when God moved him to follow Elijah, many of the disciples were fishermen or something similar. God gives many examples of using just regular individuals to give understanding too. That’s not to say God can’t save anyone He desires though.

    Comment by Nathan — 2011, March 24 @ 6:38 pm

  6. Nathan,

    The world is in a bad place, but… May 21 was the date set by a man; now my question is, is that man the authority placed by God?
    It’s nice to hear about God’s help, I’m sure He has helped you.
    I agree with you to a point about scholarship. But notice you used scholarship with your analysis of “son”. I don’t really care for scholars, but I do like scholarship. Funny; kind of like love the sinner, leave the sin, lol.

    Comment by grego — 2011, March 25 @ 11:33 pm

  7. I understand many people believe this is a date set by a man. But I have checked this all out for myself and have prayed for guidance again and again and that God would be in charge of the direction I head towards. I feel more at peace now than I ever have and am constantly learning from God’s word, the Bible is the only book I read now. God is the teacher, He is in authority. I feel that because I know He is in charge and He will guide those which way He will, then it is ultimately up to Him where I end up. I am just a man, and if I’m being honest at all then I would have to say I am not a good man at all. But God is above us all and is sovereign in all that He does. I feel that the amount of evidence pointing to May 21 is far to vast and intricate to be concocted by a man. It all fits too perfectly to be from anyone but God.

    Have you looked at any of the materials and studies about this? I highly recommend it, but just like you said, don’t trust anyone. Trust the Bible.

    Comment by Nathan — 2011, March 26 @ 3:00 am

  8. Nathan,

    Commendable attitude and belief!
    I hope to put up a short post this week (the following week at the latest–won’t do much good for anyone after May 21, eh? lol) about why I believe May 21 is impossible according to Bible prophecy.

    grego

    Comment by grego — 2011, March 27 @ 12:32 pm

  9. If May 21, 2011 is the end of the world I put my trust and faith in the Lord. We should rejoice in the Lord and be happy to finally meet our maker. Trust his judgement and leave it in his hands. We should be celebrating and have no fear. He is the Almighty the one we long to meet see and finally be with for eternal life. Put your trust and faith in him and hope that your life was lived in accordance to how he believes is right and just. Just like your excited to see the Superbowl, You should be excited to meet and be judged by the Almighty himself. Open the eyes of our hearts Lord I want to see you. We say Holy, Holy. And the end to our suffering. We hope for eternal life for a greater place with the Lord Our Father Amen.

    Comment by Anonymous — 2011, March 31 @ 7:03 am

  10. If May 21, 2011 is the end of the world I put my trust and faith in the Lord. We should rejoice in the Lord and be happy to finally meet our maker. Trust his judgement and leave it in his hands. We should be celebrating and have no fear. He is the Almighty the one we long to meet see and finally be with for eternal life. Put your trust and faith in him and hope that your life was lived in accordance to how he believes is right and just. Just like your excited to see the Superbowl, You should be excited to meet and be judged by the Almighty himself. Open the eyes of our hearts Lord I want to see you. We say Holy, Holy. And the end to our suffering. We hope for eternal life for a greater place with the Lord Our Father Amen.

    Comment by Melissa Beeville Texas — 2011, March 31 @ 7:06 am

  11. Knowledge of the end is under the Fathers power. Jesus is sitting at his right hand until he makes his enemies his footstool. Jesus said judgement day will not and I repeat not overtake those that are watching. He comes upon the unsaved as a thief, not his people. I wonder why nobody ever gets that. The people didn’t know in Noahs day either even though Noah being a preacher must have preached it sometime. But the bible says they didn’t know until the floods came and took them all away. Just because a date is revealed doesn’t mean the unsaved know the day. The unsaved don’t believe the day even though they heard it. The bible says when you see destruction coming you are commanded to warn others so their blood won’t be required of you. This tells us of what state the world and churches are today. Can I get a witness!

    Comment by Darryl — 2011, April 5 @ 5:32 am

  12. Darryl,
    Yes, Noah did preach repentance, for a long time. At least he and his family were ready when the time came!
    Be ready the best you can, right?!
    I imagine that even if the unbelievers knew the day, they wouldn’t believe it. But, not even the believers will know the day. It might be in five years, maybe fifty. I believe it’s more on the shorter end, but then…
    grego

    Comment by grego — 2011, April 5 @ 1:02 pm

  13. Melissa,
    I believe that it would be best to live so that we are always ready to “meet our maker”, and to trust Him.
    For the righteous and those seeking the truth, death will be a blessing.
    Thanks for sharing.
    grego

    Comment by grego — 2011, April 5 @ 1:05 pm

  14. I read most of the posts above.
    My point of view is: even if the next 21st of May was supposed to be the end, God will change it. But since God is all-knowing (He knew Camping even before he was born), then 21st isn’t the day, it might be before (a month left) or after.
    Anyway, if it is the 21st, who is the son of perdition then? (because it has to be revealed first, according to the speech of Jesus)
    Personally, I think that, this : “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father” talks about Jesus as ‘the Son’.
    And it is true indeed that He didn’t know it because Jesus Himself said it.
    How can it be true since Jesus and the Father is only one? (according to the Bible) It is possible because, I and my word is one, not listening to my word is not listening to me, not obeying my word is not obeying me, do not say that you want to see me but my word that you have instead, you don’t listen and obey. My word is there to reveal you what you can know about me, but still you ask for my presence !?
    How does it answer the question? it answers because: Jesus is the Word of God (John 1), and the word knows what has been ‘said’, so Jesus doesn’t know the end means God the Father didn’t say it yet. In contrast of that, the Holy Spirit knows: “For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.” (1 Cor. 2: 11)
    For the other things like Jesus being God or not, one with the Father or not, … I just humble myself (I hope you guys do so too) that I won’t be smart enough to know everything or to understand everything about God, I just believe what truth He reveals to me, like: Jesus the son of God, he is the Word of God, his name means God with us (Emanuel), his existence with the father from the beginning, the creation through him and by him,… his saying that seeing him is just seeing the Father himself, and also it is clear enough that he speaks to the Father, pray to the Father as the Father is someone else.
    Even if it contradicts, I just take both, I won’t be proud enough to chose what I think right and possible, from the bible.
    And that is the pride that leads that guy, I mean that scholar, who spent 50 years studying the bible to come up with a date 21st of May, even if being mistaken once wasn’t enough for him to deceive again the weak in Christ :( . Actually his principle is : all those number in the bible is for a purpose. It is not wrong by itself, but does it means that you have to know the mind of God about it. Doesn’t he know that it is for the Holy Spirit to reveal to us what pleases Him to, not by our deep study!? (he even say that he didn’t get it by any dream, or revelation of any kind, but through studying the bible!)
    Anyway, I am glad that his date is not very far to be proved wrong.
    By the way, Don’t you think guys that it’s ironic that it is the Mormon who claim to be the salvation boat after the 21st’s failure !? At least here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm , you can see the two times of failure of J. Smith predicting or prophesying falsely the end time.
    Why not just tell people to read more their bible and not be deceived by those people claiming having authority to use as how they want to the word of God, but advertising yourself as if Joseph Smith is the Jesus that we follow!
    Guys, I love you all, hope to meet you on the air during the rapture, and be with the Father forever, at that time all will be revealed, and we can ask God himself anyway.
    Come Lord!

    Peace be with you all.

    Comment by Iraho — 2011, April 18 @ 9:21 am

  15. Iraho,

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

    As I understand what you’re saying, we agree on some important things:
    1. Some questions are unanswered; like you said, who is the son of perdition revealed?
    2. Something like this (the date of Christs’ coming) should probably come by revelation through the Holy Ghost, not just Bible study. (But many Christians do not believe in revelation in our days, just the Bible; so most Christians probably wouldn’t believe him if he said it came by revelation.)
    3. I am also glad the date is not far away, for the same reason, but… sometimes it’s better to have people believe and work to do their best, than to think it’s so far in the future, there is no need to repent now.
    4. Yes, I understand how it *could* be very ironic! :)

    There are a few things that we currently have different views on:
    1. our views on the prophecies of Joseph Smith (which are answered in other places).

    Note the content and the conclusion, and you will find a prophecy that did not fail, but that only set a time limit of “not before the year 189?-19??; and in addition, only (possibly) then if X occurs”–and it was fulfilled.

    At that time—similar to now—there were some people claiming prophecy that Christ would come very soon—and here was Joseph Smith, saying Christ would not come for at least many years.

    Here’s a short explanation a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints/ Mormon came up with: “Clearly, even after having received this revelation himself, Joseph was uncertain as to what to make of it. He assumed that the promise that he would “see the face of the Son of Man” might have been upon his own death, since in D&C 130:15, God doesn’t specifically state that Joseph would next see Christ’s face at His Second Coming, just that he would see His face. Since he declared on several other occasions that no man (including himself) could know the date of the Second Coming of Christ, D&C 130:15 is probably not as much a prophesy as non-Mormons believe it to be.”

    Here’s a longer explanation, especially about the second prophecy you mention:
    http://www.shields-research.org/General/LDS_Leaders/1stPres/Joseph_Smith/56_Year.htm

    2. “but advertising yourself as if Joseph Smith is the Jesus that we follow!”
    I believe Joseph Smith is a prophet, not a/ the Jesus (and in all my years and all my places I’ve never met a Mormon who thought otherwise, though there might be?).
    A study of prophets in the Bible will show many things, but every time there is one important principle: obey their word which comes from God and be blessed, or ignore it/ disobey it and suffer and/ or be cursed. It is no different than with Joseph Smith and all other prophets.

    Hope this helps.

    grego

    Comment by grego — 2011, April 20 @ 12:03 am

  16. Grego,
    It’s a pleasure to share some talk with you, since you are not a close-minded Mormon (no offence), which is rare to find.
    I just hope that you are really open enough to follow the Holy Spirit wherever He leads you.
    1-
    I think you skipped a very important point of mine (as you took it point by point):
    -The Oneness of the Father and the Son, since the Son, Jesus, is the word of God the Father, and the Word was God.
    (I know people will explain it in many ways fitting them, like: He has the power of God, not exactly God, or the word ‘Word’ is talking about relationship between the two of them like a messenger, not an actual word like a speech of God. BUT, frankly read John 1.1 _In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God._ again and, tell me what you ‘read’ from it, without any ‘deep’ understanding.
    You know what? if the bible is really the word of God, God who creates our brain, knowing what can we bear, then the bible is clear and simple enough for ‘anyone’ to understand. And yet, if the bible is really the word of God, the God who created everything, then the Bible should be deep enough for ‘everyone’ to not understand. My meaning is: if you are humble then you will get it with its simplicity, but if you are proud then you won’t get anything from it with its deepness.)
    -Jesus and the Father is one, yet they are different, according to the bible. It is not possible, but nothing is impossible with God (according to the bible too)
    (Have a look at this: there are 3 groups point of view of ‘Christians’ if we are talking just about who Jesus is:
    -He is not God – not biblical, but rhymes well with: he is just a special human being – the latter is proven by the bible.
    -He is God – proven by the bible -, but not a human being – not biblical, but not possible with the first statement
    -He is God – according to the bible -, yet a human being – according to the bible -, but it is just impossible
    For me I prefer to believe the last one, because I am a mere creation of the mighty God, it’s ok for me to not understand but just believe everything about Him. And will He still be God if I know everything about him like I know myself? even myself, I don’t really know. – My dream is still a mystery for me how it works, it is just an example)
    2-
    For the case of the prediction or not of JS, and his real meaning, I don’t have too much things to say. The reason is simple: Jesus can use anyone for his work (even the stone he said, can shout praise to him), and sometimes those ‘anyone’ put their input (own taught) in the word of God, but it won’t make them evil or antichrist. As some people do nowadays, say that someone is a false prophet or antichrist because they said something not very biblical. For me, I just check the basic of faith, and that’s all, ‘salvation through the belief only on the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, not by any obedience to the laws’, I mean: true Jesus, not any guy who has the name Jesus. I can name my uncle Jesus you know, but that won’t make him my Christ. :)
    In the same manner, people shape a Jesus for themself, according to their understanding of what and who Jesus should be, not what Jesus says who he is.
    And, that statement about ‘believing in the death and resurrection of the true Jesus to save’ is complex and imply a lot of thing than how it looks like, that’s why the whole bible explains just only that.
    And I think that the JS’ follower misses that basic of faith, by having a Jesus ‘not an actual word of God’ but ‘a simple messenger of God’, ‘seeing Him is not seeing God’ but something else, ‘Jesus and the Father is not only one’ but actually I don’t know how you explain it guys (feel free correcting me if I knew wrong your belief).
    And that’s where I pick my position about the genuinity of JS as a prophet of God or not. Jesus warned us that a prophet is no longer known with their miracle or prophecy, but of their faith on Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

    By the way: have you ever seen a pig that gave birth of a dog, or a human being giving birth of a cat? I mean, if Jesus is the Son of God as both of us believe (tell me if I am wrong), how can he be not a God? And since God is only one, there is no two Gods, then He is biblically God then.
    And even Jesus himself didn’t deny when he was accused as claiming that God is “his own Father, making himself equal with God”. (John 5:18) Don’t you think that if he was accused falsely, he won’t say: “oh guys, you understood me wrong, I didn’t mean that!”, because the wrath of God will fall upon him if He accept the title of God which doesn’t belong to him. And God said that he never shares his glory.

    Remember, I didn’t say that if you are Mormon then you won’t be saved, sometimes the Holy Spirit reveals to you the truth from the lie that has been preached to you. Even if you don’t know or think that it was a lie. I mean, sometimes you hear what is not said, and you see what didn’t happened. He has a mysterious way to deal with his. (it is just a personal experience idea)

    Anyway, Is ‘If… then…’ how prophecy works in the Bible!? Give me an example. The case of Jonah is not the same, because the ‘If… then…’ is not included in the prophecy. Jonah just prophesied: “in 40 days, Nineveh will be destroyed’. But God changed his mind when He saw the converted heart of the people. Because He is not God of destruction, but God of mercy; Jonah knew that, but still he didn’t include it in the prophecy.
    3-
    One more thing: John the Baptist said: I must decrease, but He increase. Is the follower of JS is ready to let JS decrease to allow Jesus increase, or will you keep saying: please, please come here, this is the only way, because this one is through JS, any others will be condemned. The true prophet of God preaches God, not himself.
    Does your last statement mean that if I don’t believe JS but believe Jesus then I will suffer and/or be cursed!? Because I don’t remember the bible saying something like: JS is the way, the life and the truth, nobody comes to Jesus unless by him! What I see in the bible is: you guys, said Paul, say that you are of Apollos, or you are of Paul, don’t you know that we are just servant, planting and watering, but Jesus is the main thing, you have one Lord: Jesus, and one Father: God.


    Just as an information: they say that the antichrist, the man of perdition is the devil himself, but I don’t know how would they explain that verse in 1 John 2:18 saying: “Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.” Who are the ‘antichrists’ if the devil is the ‘antichrist’? And if the devil is the ‘antichrist’ wasn’t he always there since Jesus’ time, and will be there like always? Does he need even to be revealed, I thought that everyone who knows Jesus as a fact knows that devil is a fact also!

    This might help: the bible is full of craziness, I mean craziness for the world. So if you take it by mind, you will see foolishness, you need to take it by Spirit. What I’ve said is full of nonsense thing, but that’s how it is according to the bible.

    You are right in saying that we need to repent now.
    And do not forget, Jesus can come tomorrow, even now. How? Look around and think about how fast everything can change. How the fall of the twin tower in some seconds of 9.11 change the whole thing in the world? How the financial crises start? How can a handful of minutes of earthquake change everything for ever in Japan and in all worlds? … The world is small (especially before Jesus, and technology makes is not like a globe anymore but like a house), and tension is high everywhere. Everything is just like a bomb in its last 10sec.

    Know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Amen!
    Peace.

    Iraho

    Comment by Iraho — 2011, April 20 @ 5:42 am

  17. Hi Iraho,

    I wonder if you understand the LDS viewpoint on Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith? We actually hold more to #3, which is possible. Quickly:
    *Jesus was a spirit before He came to earth to receive a body (probably like all of us, in that regard).
    *Before He was born, He existed (as did we) as a spirit.
    *He was the firstborn, and was with the Father; He has helped the Father many times in the work.
    *He was Jehovah.
    *He has been the mediator between humans and God the Father basically from the time of Adam’s fall.
    *He was born and received a body; lived; fulfilled all of God’s will regarding Him; died; resurrected with his body.
    *His inheritance was immortality, powers, and more from God the Father; and mortality and all that goes with it from his human mother, Mary. That is how he could, among other things, be an eternal sacrifice for sin, die, and resurrect.
    *He is still the mediator between humans and God the Father, and will continue to be.
    *Many scriptures (in the Bible, as you even noted a few; and other scriptures in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) talk about the Jesus’ dual role of God/ human.

    Here’s some “official”-type text, not just my personal opinion:
    From http://lds.org/scriptures/gs/jesus-christ?lang=eng :
    “Jesus Christ
    See also Advocate; Alpha and Omega; Anointed One; Ascension; Atone, Atonement; Beginning; Begotten; Blood; Bread of Life; Bridegroom; Comforter; Conscience; Cornerstone; Create, Creation; Cross; Crucifixion; Deliverer; Endless; Faith; Fall of Adam and Eve; Firstborn; God, Godhead; Golgotha; Good Shepherd; Gospels; Grace; I Am; Immanuel; Jehovah; Lamb of God; Light, Light of Christ; Living Water; Lord; Mary, Mother of Jesus; Mediator; Messiah; Plan of Redemption; Redeem, Redeemed, Redemption; Redeemer; Remission of Sins; Repent, Repentance; Resurrection; Rock; Sacrament; Sacrifice; Savior; Second Coming of Jesus Christ; Sermon on the Mount; Serpent, Brazen; Son of Man; Transfiguration—Transfiguration of Christ; Way.

    Christ (a Greek word) and Messiah (a Hebrew word) mean “the anointed.” Jesus Christ is the Firstborn of the Father in the spirit (Heb. 1:6; D&C 93:21). He is the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh (John 1:14; 3:16). He is Jehovah (D&C 110:3–4) and was foreordained to his great calling before the creation of the world. Under the direction of the Father, Jesus created the earth and everything on it (John 1:3, 14; Moses 1:31–33). He was born to Mary at Bethlehem, lived a sinless life, and made a perfect atonement for the sins of all mankind by shedding of his blood and giving his life on the cross (Matt. 2:1; 1 Ne. 11:13–33; 3 Ne. 27:13–16; D&C 76:40–42). He rose from the dead, thus assuring the eventual resurrection of all mankind. Through Jesus’ atonement and resurrection, those who repent of their sins and obey God’s commandments can live eternally with Jesus and the Father (2 Ne. 9:10–12; 21–22; D&C 76:50–53, 62).

    Jesus Christ is the greatest being to be born on this earth. His life is the perfect example of how all mankind should live. All prayers, blessings, and priesthood ordinances should be done in his name. He is the Lord of lords, King of kings, the Creator, the Savior, and the God of the whole earth.

    Jesus Christ will come again in power and glory to reign on the earth during the Millennium. At the last day, he will judge all mankind (Alma 11:40–41; JS—M 1).”

    Then there is a list regarding his identity, his roles, etc.
    and here:

    “Savior
    See also Jesus Christ.
    One who saves. Jesus Christ, through his atonement, offered redemption and salvation to all mankind. “Savior” is a name and title of Jesus Christ.
    * The Lord is my light and my salvation, Ps. 27:1 (Ex. 15:1–2; 2 Sam. 22:2–3).
    * I am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior, Isa. 43:11 (D&C 76:1).
    * Call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins, Matt. 1:21
    * Unto you is born this day a Savior, which is Christ the Lord, Luke 2:11
    * God so loved the world that the Only Begotten Son came to save men, John 3:16–17
    * There is no other name beside Christ’s whereby man may be saved, Acts 4:10–12 (2 Ne. 25:20; Mosiah 3:17; Mosiah 5:8; D&C 18:23; Moses 6:52).
    * From heaven we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, Philip. 3:20
    * The Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world, 1 Jn. 4:14
    * The Lord raised up a Messiah, a Savior of the world, 1 Ne. 10:4
    * The Lamb of God is the Savior of the world, 1 Ne. 13:40
    * The knowledge of a Savior shall spread throughout every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, Mosiah 3:20
    * Christ had to die that salvation could come, Hel. 14:15–16
    * Justification and sanctification through the Savior are just and true, D&C 20:30–31
    * I am Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, D&C 43:34
    * Mine Only Begotten is the Savior, Moses 1:6
    * As many as believe in the Son and repent of their sins will be saved, Moses 5:15″

    -=-=-=
    Iraho wrote: And that’s where I pick my position about the genuinity of JS as a prophet of God or not. Jesus warned us that a prophet is no longer known with their miracle or prophecy, but of their faith on Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

    grego writes: Prophets cannot be proven by signs/ miracles, but signs/ miracles do follow prophets. Their faith is definitely more important.

    Iraho wrote: Anyway, Is ‘If… then…’ how prophecy works in the Bible!? Give me an example. The case of Jonah is not the same, because the ‘If… then…’ is not included in the prophecy. Jonah just prophesied: “in 40 days, Nineveh will be destroyed’. But God changed his mind when He saw the converted heart of the people. Because He is not God of destruction, but God of mercy; Jonah knew that, but still he didn’t include it in the prophecy.”

    grego writes: Sure, I’ll check a few for you, I think Jeremiah has many of them.
    I think Jonah could be a case, notwithstanding… If Neneveh was to be destroyed, what was the point in repenting to not be destroyed? It seems like David—he fasted for his child, even though God said the child would die. David understood it was possible/ might have been, however scant, an “if… then…”; but it wasn’t, the result was already fixed.
    Even in Chinese, for example, which has clear “if…then…” phraseology—it is not always used/said, yet the person receiving the message understands it’s in there.
    Anyway, on to Jeremiah and others… I’ll put them up soon.

    -=
    Iraho wrote: 3-One more thing: John the Baptist said: I must decrease, but He increase. Is the follower of JS is ready to let JS decrease to allow Jesus increase, or will you keep saying: please, please come here, this is the only way, because this one is through JS, any others will be condemned. The true prophet of God preaches God, not himself.
    Does your last statement mean that if I don’t believe JS but believe Jesus then I will suffer and/or be cursed!? Because I don’t remember the bible saying something like: JS is the way, the life and the truth, nobody comes to Jesus unless by him! What I see in the bible is: you guys, said Paul, say that you are of Apollos, or you are of Paul, don’t you know that we are just servant, planting and watering, but Jesus is the main thing, you have one Lord: Jesus, and one Father: God.

    grego writes: The Bible rarely says, “If you don’t follow [name of the prophet], you won’t be saved.” (And yet Jesus did say that about John the Baptist.) However, the Bible is full of prophets giving testimony they have been called of God, prophesying and warning the people, and having those prophecies fulfilled, etc.
    It is true that before anyone can return to God the Father, they will have to acknowledge Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. It will be easy at that time for them to voluntarily do so, though. It’s a matter of understanding and perspective, and the Spirit.
    I would expect it to sound horrible and bitter to many non-members of the church to hear that, of course.
    But God always does that with his prophets. Like, do you believe that anyone living at the time of Melchizedek and Abraham could deny their being prophets, yet fully be at one with God? Or that anyone at the time of Noah could deny that he was a prophet, disbelieve his teachings, and yet fully be at one with God? Etc.
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints doesn’t expect everyone to believe right now, nor do we believe that everyone who dies disbelieving is “lost”. God knew, and not necessarily to their “disbenefit”, that many of his children would not even have the opportunity to hear about Jesus Christ, much less his current prophets, even in this day. I’d say surely from 420AD to 1820AD pretty much no human being knew the true gospel, nor could they be accepted into it. That’s a lot of people.
    God made plans, just like he made plans for a Savior when he knew that Adam and Eve would fall before they did.

    -=
    Iraho wrote: “Because I don’t remember the bible saying something like: JS is the way, the life and the truth, nobody comes to Jesus unless by him!”

    grego writes: The Bible never says that any prophet is the way, the life, and the truth, but it’s clear that if you don’t believe the prophets, you won’t have eternal life. Each time has its prophets that need to be obeyed, as they speak for God. That’s basically the importance of the Bible.
    And yet many Christians say, “The Bible is the way, the life and the truth, nobody comes to Jesus unless by it!” But I don’t see that in the Bible, either. :)
    I wonder if most people are confused by not understanding/ misunderstanding the role of a prophet? Here is a little about “prophet” from the Bible dictionary of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (http://lds.org/scriptures/bd/prophet.p1?lang=eng&letter=p) :
    “Prophet
    *…The work of a Hebrew prophet was to act as God’s messenger and make known God’s will. The message was usually prefaced with the words “Thus saith Jehovah.”
    *He taught men about God’s character, showing the full meaning of his dealings with Israel in the past. It was therefore part of the prophetic office to preserve and edit the records of the nation’s history; and such historical books as Joshua, Judges, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings were known by the Jews as the former Prophets.
    *It was also the prophet’s duty to denounce sin and foretell its punishment, and to redress, so far as he could, both public and private wrongs.
    *He was to be, above all, a preacher of righteousness.
    *When the people had fallen away from a true faith in Jehovah, the prophets had to try to restore that faith and remove false views about the character of God and the nature of the Divine requirement.
    *In certain cases prophets predicted future events, e.g., there are the very important prophecies announcing the coming of Messiah’s kingdom; but as a rule a prophet was a forthteller rather than a foreteller. In a general sense a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost, as in Num. 11:25–29; Rev. 19:10.”

    I’ll put up a few quotes from Joseph smith and other modern prophets regarding the subject of them or Jesus Christ.

    -=-=-=
    It seems more and more people (including Christians) don’t really believe in the devil/ Satan.

    -=
    Iraho wrote: “And do not forget, Jesus can come tomorrow, even now.”

    grego writes: I agree that the world can change drastically in the matter of seconds; however, I disagree here, believing that Jesus can’t come now or even really soon.
    That’s the reason for the constant reminder to watch the signs, so as to not be misled; such as by some who will say “he has come” (Matthew 24:23, 24, I believe, talks about this problem at an earlier time). And there are many signs that have times given to them, which disallow the Second Coming to come really soon.

    Take care,
    grego

    Comment by grego — 2011, April 21 @ 3:21 am

  18. so… is there an specific time if this happened on may 21st?.. like.. will it happen at 12:00 am, 7am, 2pm, during your sleep?…

    Comment by rick mladin — 2011, May 12 @ 5:15 pm

  19. Rick,

    Not sure if you got it, but just in case: *no*, it won’t happen on May 21st.
    I’m not sure about those who believe, however, and I suggest asking them. :)

    Thanks,
    grego

    Comment by grego — 2011, May 13 @ 2:58 am

  20. Grego – real quick – what prophesies are we still waiting to be fulfilled before the Second Coming? BTW – really enjoyed reading so far your responses.

    Comment by JonD — 2011, May 14 @ 4:51 am

  21. Did anyone see the picture of the controversial billboard that was recently put up by another spiritual group near Family Radio’s headquarters? It directly challenges them about May 21.

    Comment by 9999nath — 2011, May 15 @ 1:51 am

  22. JonD,

    Please see my other article at the end, above. (Sorry I didn’t point that out in the description! I’ve change it now.)

    Best regards,
    grego

    Comment by grego — 2011, May 16 @ 2:24 am

  23. As far as the “Father and Son being one,” I believe it is like saying that when you are married you and your spouse are one. I believe they have that understanding and connection between one another that they can actually claim that.

    Comment by Myrow — 2011, May 20 @ 5:42 pm

  24. Hmm, it’s interesting how man-kind doesn’t seperate church and soul yet we were so successful in seperating church and state. Also, why does the second coming have to be so full of destuction, terror and hate all the time? I’ve read only a few will be saved and yet that few (200 million) on earth is far less than the total amount of babies and small children in which I am sure have not even had a chance to prove whom are good (or not good) of a soul they are (or aren’t). Also, what about those in the rapture that have lived on earth and passed away already. Are they part of the #? The bible has been rewritten by man plus many books that were orginally to be part of it not put in so I am sure there are many more versus we are unaware of that could restate other passages because they were not included. However, if God told man (King James) not to put some in that he has spoken to man or so it would seem. So this old guy making predictions could be right but it seems so DeJeve’ because we have heard this all before so how does man know when to seperate the extreme from reality? Meaning, if we were told the truth by him were we told the truth from the ones in the past? How do we know? I think we should NOT listen to anyone and NOT let anyone tell us that doomsday is approaching at 6pm. Which by the way which 6PM? It’s 6pm somewhere at some point all day long around the world (for the most part). If the second coming is happening tomorrow it’s only because God, the heavenly father, and the Christ and so on is so tired of man being so WEIRD for a kinder word. Remember with all the passages and the conversation that have taken place in the Bible and then tainted by man re-writing it a ba-zillion times to the point ….well, the only thing I can trust is something not tainted by man and that is not written down anywhere. Maybe perhaps the 10 commandment which illustrate in respecting God in the first 5 and then respecting each other in the last 5. Purely something we have witnessed by the twin towers falling that we have no respect for each other and killing seems to be the best thing. I don’t think doomsday is going to be like a 9/11 episode. There is no way that Jesus and God could be that cruel to people, plants, animanls, mammals and so on to all living things.

    Comment by Anonymous — 2011, May 20 @ 10:17 pm

  25. Yes! And probably much more than a couple can understand in this life, so “the Father and Son being one” is true like that.

    Comment by grego — 2011, May 21 @ 2:06 am

  26. Well I guess the next date to wait for is Oct 21st – or at least says the parrot of false prophet. Someone should take those Judgement Day signs down now…kinda getting embarrassing…

    Comment by JonD — 2011, July 9 @ 1:18 pm

  27. There with ya, JonD. :)

    Comment by grego — 2011, July 11 @ 12:05 am


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